Raising Discus Fry Without Egg Yolk!! By Jack Agliata

[brewmaster15]

Raising Discus Fry Without Egg Yolk!!
By Jack Agliata (Rev.2/5/24)

I bought my first discus 68 years ago when I was 14. I jumped on the subway in The Bronx and took the train down to lower Manhattan and The Aquarium Stock Company; fantastic, huge store with entrances on 2 streets, even a catalog to buy fish by mail. I think it cost me 20 bucks for one half-dollar size wild discus, which quickly died within 20 minutes after I put it in my 15-gallon Metaframe. And I learned then that pH was something I should be aware of.
Since that day, my fascination with discus has never waned, and even when I was into salt, African cichlids, salamanders, newts and dart frogs, etc., I always kept at least one tank, usually with a breeding pair of discus. Fast forward to the beginning of last year.
On one of the Facebook discus groups I belonged to at that time, I saw albino platinum discus for a not so cheap price at Chicago Discus and I bought a pair. Yes, discus can be sexed fairly easily IF you have seen enough of them, and the owners of Chicago Discus came thru as usual. Within a month the pair spawned, fought and then ate the eggs. After a few months of similar failed spawns, I decided to try raising the fry artificially using the Jack Wattley ***powdered egg yolk method, with my usual failure rate of 100% the result! Eventually the male killed the female, so I put a heckle female in with him in the 30-half-moon tank and the 2 ignored each other for 6 months or more.
Back to Chicago Discus for a “new” female. Not wanting to risk another female platinum at the higher price, I picked out a heckle-cross snakeskin female at half the cost. I got her on a Thursday and it was love at first sight for them. Their first spawn was the following Monday and they have spawned almost every Monday since then, with a few breaks in between. The first spawns had a few live wigglers, which increased in number with subsequent spawns, particularly after I shut the cannister off before they spawned until the next morning.
And while there was no fighting between the pair over the eggs or wigglers, the fry never attached to either the male or female when they went free swimming. That was to be expected with the light bodied platinum male, but the result was the same with the female, whose body darkened, as it should have, to attract the fry to her side.

jack_pr.jpg

There are ways to improve the chances of fry attaching, notably reducing the water height to cone top level and painting the tank sides white. The details can be found on the SimplyDiscus Forum site, http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/, an excellent source of information for reliable discus info, as opposed to the bologna that is often passed on from one FB discus group to another.
Needing a challenge, I decided to try raising the fry artificially for this unique pairing. Over at least 50 years, I can honestly say that I have raised no more than 20 fry artificially in total, mostly by dumb luck, and killed thousands. So, I searched the web and found just what I was looking for in the Urban Fishkeeper. One look at his technique on YouTube and I was thrilled; I had found the magic solution to my goal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ars5J_hSlDE
Sadly, in a nutshell this Wattley powdered egg yolk modification also did not work for me. The holes in the white bowl eventually clogged and of course, powdered egg yolk was the culprit. Too much water flow, and the egg yolk fell off the air stone it was deposited on; too slow a water flow and the egg yolk polluted the bowl, killing off the fry by the 10s each day, until there were none left.
About a month ago, (2 spawns ago,) I made a change to this method. I got rid of the white bowl and also eliminated the tray on which it sat. I did this out of desperation after I had lost all but 8 of the original fry put into the white bowl.
What I used in lieu of the white bowl with holes, was a reusable coffee cup basket, specifically the Goldtone 8-12 Cup basket on Amazon ($8). To keep the bowl floating, I cut a hole in a thin, 1/8-inch-thick piece of Styrofoam, a little smaller than the top rim, with about an inch or two of Styrofoam floating rim. I also taped the insides of the basket when I sprayed the solid bottom of the basket white with Krylon Fusion paint, which makes it easier to see the fry and left over food. The 8 remaining fry were put in this new home and thrived floating in the 5 gallon tank. Filtration for the 5-gallon tank is a DaToo Aquarium Hang On Filter (Amazon $11). This really is NOT for filtration as such but for increasing water flow into the floating basket. In addition, there is an Aquapapa 4X Bio Sponge Filter (Amazon $11 for 4 filters) with the outflow below the water line directly into the basket. (See above) The floating basket is kept in one spot near the outflow of both filters by a piece of twist tie tied by the basket handle to the airline or heater chord. The 8-remaining fry were fed solely on BBS from this point on and eventually placed in the 5-gallon tank shown, where they are to this day. (The little dot in the lower left corner of the tank is one of the 8)

tank_jack.jpg


With the discus pair’s next spawn, I could not wait to get the wigglers into my new setup. True to form, the pair did not disappoint and I put about 60 wigglers into the basket almost 2 weeks ago. I then waited until all the wigglers were free swimming, which took another day and a half, and removed a few dead fry and unhatched eggs from the bottom of the basket with a pipette.
I fed the fry twice that day, 4 hours apart, with newly hatched BBS, the last feeding was about 8pm when the tank lights were off but there was sufficient light in the room from the TV etc. No egg yolk powder was used as there was no way it would have stayed put with the increased water flow. No lights were on at night in the room, so the fry did not feed for about 10 hours. I awoke the next morning to find not one dead fry and everybody anxiously waiting for the BBS.
Of course, being retired and home most of the day, I could not leave well enough alone, so I increased the BBS feedings to every 3 hours or less. Bad move; I awoke each morning thereafter to 5 or so dead fry. My guess is that some of the fry are eating unhatched BBS eggs, or just too much BBS?

basket_jack.jpg

Here is the schedule I now use that seems to substantially reduce dead fry; I feed BBS at 7am, 11am, 4pm, and finally 8pm. The actual time might be +/- one hour from that shown. I have the feeling that the fry can go longer between feedings.
I use the Hobby Artemia Hatchery (Brine Shrimp Direct $25) to hatch and collect my BBS. When it appears that the collection amount is significantly reduced, I use the “lasagna method” (from Diana Walstead of the Raleigh Aquarium Society) and fill a glass tray with just enough water, salt and eggs to refill the Hatchery, and put it in the hot garage with a foil cover. Next day, I clean the Hatchery and replace with the entire “lasagna” water and now hatched eggs. In this way, I never have a gap in BBS available.
The pictures show the 5-gallon setup and the approximately 40 almost 2-week-old fry still growing from day 1 on only BBS. After the fry are about a large grain of rice, maybe 2-3 weeks, the fry will be placed into a plastic breeder box located in the 5-gallon tank. I deliberately use a plastic box because I want the BBS to not escape thru the holes of a mesh box. This is the time that I will introduce fine powdered dry food into the breeder box along with the BBS. When the fry are round and about the size of a pea, they will be released into the 5 gallon and still fed BBS, white worms and eventually grindal worms as they grow, along with dry food. I always use 2 or 3 small corys in these breeding tanks.
Here is the result after about 3 months. Obviously, the albino platinum gene is recessive so I will keep about 8 or so to see what I get in the f2 generation.

jackjuvies.jpg

Nevertheless, it is a great feeling to have about 40 fry from one spawn raised artificially from day 1 on BBS, double the amount of my “success” in the prior 50 years with egg yolk!!!
I hope those of you interested in raising discus fry artificially give it a try. I am sure there might be further changes that you can find to improve the results and/or cut down on the effort.
Jack Agliata
Key points as I see it;
Discus fry can certainly be raised artificially from day 1 exclusively on BBS.
The small size of the basket is an important part of getting discus fry to immediately eat BBS.
Discus fry need not feed or have lights on all night-they will survive for 10 hours, perhaps longer.
Water flow in the basket is very important.
You need not spend a fortune in money or time to be successful.
GOOD LUCK!!!

*** With all due respect to Jack Wattley, he will always be the father of discus going back to the 1950s when he alone was breeding high quality wilds for color, which resulted in his coming up with the use of powdered egg yolk. But we have moved on from metal frame tanks, under gravel filters, incandescent lighting, etc. and perhaps now, we should move on permanently from egg yolk to BBS. It obviously can be done successfully!

[brewmaster15]

Jack Agliata is a long time member of SimplyDiscus (user name :KIAWAHKID) was kind enough to share this article that he wrote documenting his experiences with artificial breeding. I'm sure if you guys have any questions and post them here Jack can give you more details on what he did.

Jack, Thanks for the write, as someone that has experimented alot with Artificial Discus Rearing, I found it a great article!



al

[fljones3]

Fascinating. Love the ingenuity!

[Iminit]

I too have killed hundreds trying to artificially raise them. Will remember this if I ever try again.
Plus I remember the Aquarium Stock company. It was more aquarium than fish store. A city block long with entrance’s on I think 23rd and 24th streets. Place was huge!!

[AquaticNerd]

Thanks for the write up Jack. It was a good read and very succinct - something I appreciate with the limited time available to me these days.

I'd love to hear more about the 'lasagna method' if there ever is a chance to write something else up.

[KIAWAHKID]

Very simple-an 8 inch square glass pyrex dish with no aeration or anything. I just fill it as I would the Artemia Hatchery-a mouthwash bottle is usually a full liter of water-2 tablespoons Kosher salt and 2 little scoops of BBS eggs. Put it in the warm garage with a foil cover and in 12 hours you have hatched shrimp. When the weather gets colder I guess I will just put it in the oven (NOT ON) overnight for warmth.

[KIAWAHKID]

Aquarium Stock Company was down by city hall-I think Warren Street was one entrance.

[Iminit]

Been a long time. West side of the city?

[KIAWAHKID]

https://issuu.com/modernaquarium/doc...m_november2011 Thumb thru this mag for a story on the ASC!

[KIAWAHKID]

I should mention that I have not seen one albino platinum fry so either they die off quickly within the first day or two, or the gene is obviously recessive.

[brady]

I must have met or seen Jack down there. We are about the same age and used to get there catalog in the mail.
We, my friend and I, used to take the train from Larchmont to Grand Central and then the subway to Chambers st.
It was an awesome fish store and if I remember it was run by 2 German men who really knew there stuf.
Bought 2 wilds for about 30$ ,they were put in a carton like you get Chinese takeout in today.Had an approximately
a 2 hour trip home, put them in a 20 gal. and the next morning they were dead. The tank was I think 75F and had some elodia in it.
So started the legend that discus are hard to keep.
Jay
Al, thanks for that article brought back a lot of memories.

[brady]

Right, many times sat in City hall park and let the kids play. Imagine doing that today.

[AquaticNerd]

Very simple-an 8 inch square glass pyrex dish with no aeration or anything. I just fill it as I would the Artemia Hatchery-a mouthwash bottle is usually a full liter of water-2 tablespoons Kosher salt and 2 little scoops of BBS eggs. Put it in the warm garage with a foil cover and in 12 hours you have hatched shrimp. When the weather gets colder I guess I will just put it in the oven (NOT ON) overnight for warmth.

Thanks for that info Jack and really appreciate you responding! Seems like a very unique way to hatch BBS without needing to go through the hassle of an aerator, light, etc.

[KIAWAHKID]

It is not my "find" but a woman from the Raleigh Aquarium Society (great FB page) who called it the "lasagna tray" method, which being Italian, caught my eye. In the final analysis, it is the same principle that the Artemia Hatchery uses with a low water level and no light and aeration. She uses bigger trays because she has more fry of several species and she actually freezes some of them. For me, with only one discus spawn at a time to deal with, it works like a charm because it only takes 12 hours to replenish the Artemia Hatchery.

[KIAWAHKID]

https://youtu.be/G-yKjeB_2v0?si=jAJtMXMuc5TFu8wG This is the Artemia Hatching kit I keep referring too. About 27 bucks on Amazon