Copper verses Pex?

[brewmaster15]

In my area alot of the homes were built in the 70s and 80s. Copper was the choice plumbing material here regardless of water pH. I grew up in the area and my Dad built our home with copper pipes. I have no clue what new construction out here is using but from my visits to Lowes and homedepot its clear the copperpipes and fittings section is getting smaller whereas Pex is growing.

Just the installation benefit of PEX.. anyone can install this stuff. Its cheap, It cuts easy, is flexible to a greater degree, and fittings use simple compression bands, greater resistence to bursting from freezing. Repairs easy even if theres some water in the pipes.

Copper is harder to.work with, takes some practice to install. Sweating fittings can be challenging if theres any water in the pipes. Torches are needed..its very expensive... so expensive that in my area theres been a problem with people breaking into new homes or unoccupied homes and ripping out the copper pipes for scrap $$$. Acidic water DOES eat it away. All my life I have always had a copper pipe repair kit.. a few lengths of pipe,various fittings, torch and solder..everything I could use in a repair at 2 am in the morning. More recently I have added sharkbite fittings to my kit.. what a life saver these are!

[Charlyc11]

I found this interesting about PEX,I was curios about the brass fittings and plastic fittings the possibility of corroding.

https://www.pexuniverse.com/problems...eir%20fittings.

doesn't SharkBite have metal teeth to hold? They might not be exposed to liquid as I recall I used the with CPVC in the past but not with well water..

[AquaticNerd]

It's worth noting that the study that Al linked earlier is a great read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7915131/. One thing to point out about the study - for the compounds that were tested for, they all went below the levels from the source distribution system before installation of the PEX-A system. One of the compounds read lower on day 0 than what was observed from the distribution system.

You can find similar studies related to copper piping leaching unsafe levels of metals: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5615691/.

I've dealt with/installed both copper and pex piping in my old home, and new home. My preference moving forward is going to be PEX-A (also known as expansion PEX or Uponor [brand name]). Several reasons for this (a lot of this has been touched on by Al):
1) Cost - much better compared to copper. If you're planning on replumbing an entire home, the battery powered expansion tool basically pays for itself in the labor saved if you were to have a plumber do the work, or in time saved from having to solder all joints.
2) Repairability/Homeowner friendly - Want to modify an existing pipe to add on? Need to make a repair? It's much easier with PEX compared to copper. With PEX, I don't have to make sure the copper is empty of water before soldering (or use the bread trick). Repairs are quicker with PEX. Accidentally bend the pipe and make a kink? Heat it up with a heat gun and it'll go back to its original shape without any reduction in strength. Can't do that with copper or PEX-B.
3) Reliability - PEX has been around much longer than we think - Eurpose since the 70s. If there were longevity issues, I would imagine that there would be more widespread reports about it from our folks across the pond.
4) Flexibility - I can install PEX in tighter spaces and not worry about burning my house down (even with fire blocking). Since it's a flexible material, I can bend it into a radius without needing to add in an elbow. Less joints = less chance for leaks in my mind. With copper, you have to use elbows to make turns, meaning more chances for joints to leak.
5) Freeze protection - See the linked videos below, but PEX expands with water that freezes inside. Good for those who live in cooler climates.

I would stay away from PEX-B (compression/crimp PEX) if you can help it. I have it in my house currently, and the reduction in pressure due to smaller ID for pipe and fittings is noticeable. On top of that, it's not as flexible and if it kinks you're cutting that out because it can't be repaired.

If you like copper - it is catching up a bit to ease of install like PEX if you use propress fittings instead of solder, but the high cost of fittings, pipe, and specialized tool needed makes it a poor choice for me right now.

[brewmaster15]

The sharkbite do have teeth but they are external on the pipe and not in on contact with water.

20231010_082703.jpg

I only started using these a few years ago but they have all held up well so far.. no leaks. They are really expensive so most of the time I just use copper and solder.

Thanks for that link Chuck.. theres one it referenced here..
https://www.pexuniverse.com/leaks-sh...w-prevent-them

With some good tips .

Al

[brewmaster15]

Jake,
This ..

I would stay away from PEX-B (compression/crimp PEX) if you can help it. I have it in my house currently, and the reduction in pressure due to smaller ID for pipe and fittings is noticeable. On top of that, it's not as flexible and if it kinks you're cutting that out because it can't be repaired.

Thats is a major problem here ..its what we used here and the loss of water pressure in the bathrooms is really noticeable. At the time a friend who worked with pex offered to help if I wanted to save some time and money.I figured sure why not give it a try.. I regret that now.

[AquaticNerd]

The big problem is doing a 1:1 exchange (size wise) for copper to pex. From some of my buddies and research online, if you are moving from copper to PEX-B and want similar pressure, you need to go up 1 size in PEX-B compared to copper. I.E. if you are replacing 1/2" copper with PEX-B, you need to replace it with 3/4" PEX-B. That's why I have heavily considered going the PEX-A route - since it's expansion, the fittings and pipe have the same ID as the copper equivalents, so it's 1:1 swap.

One day, I'll make the transition from PEX-B and what little copper remains to PEX-A, but for now it's just a pipe dream.

[brewmaster15]

Pipe dream lol .. too punny


I wish I had known the upsizing issue.. not sure how that would have worked with connecting to sink fixtures though as they are made for standard 1/2" I guess you could maybe go from 3/4 "pex b to 1/2 copper or pex A at the sink.



Ok so at this point pex b is out .. if I use pex ..it will be A. Its a bit more costly where I am but still cheaper than copper. I will need to retool though.. my pex stuff is all for type b... shame too as I have alot of them since When we did the bathroom I was thinking of slowly moving to pex as repairs were needed.

Maybe I will go hybrid.. copper coldwater.. pex A hot water. Then I dont have to deal with plastic tasting water. Hmmm

[AquaticNerd]

I'm glad you got a kick out of that. It was definitely intentional

And you're exactly right. If you use PEX-B you could do a 3/4 to 1/2 transition or make/buy stubouts. For PEX-A you can do the same: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-8...WE12/302741907. Then you can use your traditional compression valves. Or go full PEX-A and use the cold expansion valves: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCra...X-C1/312984681.

I can't say I've experienced any plastic taste from my faucets. Of course, my tap water is likely very different from yours so your mileage may vary. Of course, most of the time if I'm getting water to drink it comes from the filtered water in my fridge. Without that, I'd likely install an under-cabinet water filter system that has its own faucet for the filtered water.

[Charlyc11]

No plastic taste here from the CPVC connection my drinking and cooking water goes through my under the cabinet RO filter. For just drinking cold water from the RO filter to the filter in the fridge.

[brewmaster15]

No plastic taste here from the CPVC connection my drinking and cooking water goes through my under the cabinet RO filter. For just drinking cold water from the RO filter to the filter in the fridge.

Chuck is there a reason you have your drinking and cooking water go through a RO filter?

[Charlyc11]

I have the softener witch removes the magnesium and calcium and leaves me with lots of sodium. I prefer less sodium in my water.
plus I am in farmland who knows what's in the water.

[brewmaster15]

I have the softener witch removes the magnesium and calcium and leaves me with lots of sodium. I prefer less sodium in my water.
plus I am in farmland who knows what's in the water.

I see.. makes sense.
Al

[Charlyc11]

I see.. makes sense.
Al

I bypass my softener for the fish and they don't seem to mind unless they are laying eggs and turn all white. For that I need my RO downstairs in my water room, that unit can do 400 GPD in summer and a bit less in the winter due to the water temperatures coming in. But what a waste of water.