face down discus

[lub0]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

One of my 7 discus is swimming face down in the last couple of days and I just saw some videos about Epson salt treatment.

The fish are about 1 year old and first time I am seeing this...

1st question is this a good idea to do? How much to use and for how long?

2nd question, I know it will probably be better if I can separate the fish to treat it, but it will be hard to catch in a planted and scaped aquarium, so can I treat the whole 110G tank with Epson salt and do few big water changes after to get read of the salt?

The aquarium is planted with Java fern and Anubias and Photos on top, so I want to make sure the plants will be OK as well as the other fish: Corydoras, bristle nose pleco, hatchetfish


2. Symptoms:

When staying in one place it is head down, swimming normal, eating normal


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

3 days ago I added Epsom salt 3 table spoons for 110G


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
110G, 1 year old, 1 discus 2 years old, 6 discus 1 year old, 2 corry, bristle pleco, hatchet fish


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
1/4 every few weeks

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
1 year approx

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
no aging from the tap with API tap water conditioner

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
API tap water conditioner

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 82

- ph 6.2

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0.5

- nitrate reading 80

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water 100%

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
no, everything was quarantined with Aquarium coop med trio 1 year ago when the tank was setup

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
frozen discus food in the morning + a bit of blood worms, small dose discus pellets with auto feeder


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
You can treat the whole tank with epsom salt but your dose was too small

ago I added Epsom salt 3 table spoons for 110G

usually dosed at 1 tablespoon per 10 gals water.

I see you have a planted tank.. I know epsom salt is beneficial to terrestrial plants...Im pretty sure it will not harm your plants.

I can't really see the fish clearly but usually if the problem is bloat and blockage you will swelling. If you dont you may be dealing with a swim bladder problem and epsom salt won't help that.

As a side note.. your nitrates are too high and you really should change more water. Swim bladder issues can be bacterial and water quality is suspect.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
1/4 every few weeks

[jeep]

Hopefully this is just bloating or a blockage, but very high nitrates can also lead to bladder issues. I would definitely increase water changes an get nitrates under 20 and preferably under 10.

Can you post a close up photo of the fish so we can see its whole body?

[lub0]

Thanks guys, will water change out the nitrates to 40 or 20, I am keeping them high because I think the Photos is out competing the aquarium plants, but I guess I got overboard with the fertilizers... I increased the Epsom salt dose today to 1 table spoon per 20G as per Gabe Posada video, but if no change in a week 10 days will increase again to 1 per 10G... Also added some API General Cure to the food today and here is a better picture of the fish feeding on it... Thanks again for the help and ideas!

[bluelagoon]

The plants in the pics don't need ferts. added. They should get enough from the fish and food for those plants. Also, how often do you siphon the substrate?

[lub0]

The plants in the pics don't need ferts. added. They should get enough from the fish and food for those plants. Also, how often do you siphon the substrate?

Actually a lot of my plants died without fertilizer, only those survived and were not doing well until I start fertilizing, I think the culprit there is the Photos which is growing like crazy and out competes the rest... I vac with water changes so every few weeks... thanks for taking the time!

[brewmaster15]

Pothos is a good consumer of nitrates but its ability to take them up is related to its root mass. If you trim the roots it should slow the growth and uptake of nutrients.

[bluelagoon]

Every few (3-5) weeks is along time to change out 25% WC IMO for pristine water, considering added ferts and waste from plants and fish. During WC's deep siphon the substrate to remove most organics so there's not much nutrients for the nasty things that may cause harm/disease. Try to aim for 10 nitrates with WC's and then ad some ferts if needed. Sometimes it takes a long time (a year or two, other discus right away for water quality issues to effect the health of discus while other species can do well.

[lub0]

Pothos is a good consumer of nitrates but its ability to take them up is related to its root mass. If you trim the roots it should slow the growth and uptake of nutrients.

This is very good idea, thank you Sir!

[lub0]

Every few (3-5) weeks is along time to change out 25% WC IMO for pristine water, considering added ferts and waste from plants and fish. During WC's deep siphon the substrate to remove most organics so there's not much nutrients for the nasty things that may cause harm/disease. Try to aim for 10 nitrates with WC's and then ad some ferts if needed. Sometimes it takes a long time (a year or two, other discus right away for water quality issues to effect the health of discus while other species can do well.

Thanks Mervin, will increase to 50% every couple of weeks and test the water more often... also will have to see somehow what nutrient the Pothos is taking most from all the ferts, so I wont need to blank spray all in fertilizer when maybe only one or two things are lacking...Any idea about more complex test kit for this kind of situation?

[Iminit]

Lol! Wow you’re willing to go to 50% every few weeks! Well if you remember? Well your fish is headstanding because of your care (or lack of)! From what you’re saying here: you don’t know how to keep plants or discus . Lol your just fishing!!

[LizStreithorst]

Tom, I don't agree with his approach either but the way he chooses to care for his aquariums is up to him.

[Iminit]

Liz I hear ya! But I’m not sure he’s serious. May be trolling!

[brewmaster15]

Tom hes not troll.. just a member looking for help.

Unfortunately we have gotten trolls here before that try to rile us up.


lub0 .You came here for help. Can I be frank and candid with you? You may not like the reply but if you want happier healthier discus we can help. I have no agenda but I wont pull any punches .

[Iminit]

Ok I’m sorry lub0 but you’ve got to understand to me what you’re saying doesn’t make sense. I keep and have kept planted tanks. They’re not easy. There’s a balance between the water and the plants. Some ferts are needed sometimes not. A lot has to do with lighting and the amount of fish. If the pothos is removing too much nitrate remove the pothos. But I don’t think that’s the problem. I thinking your lighting is either on too long or the intensity is way to high. High intense lighting needs CO2. I would never recomended CO2 with discus. Unless you really know your Co2. Dail down the lighting and your plant should do better.

Discus and plants are a tough combo. Just not meant to be. Discus need clean water plants like nitrates. To make this work you have to stay on top of the tank. Vacume the substrate at every 50% water change you do twice or more a week. Yes there are so many on Facebook say that’s not true. They say it for a few months and then disappear. Or when they put up pictures of their tanks they’re all new discus in the tank. For a planted discus tank with substrate there can only be a few discus in large 90g or bigger tanks.

So I’m sorry about coming after you like you were a troll. But I read this all the time. You’ve been here since 02. This site isn’t Facebook. All anyone says here is clean water = healthy discus. Thing is these fish can take a very long time to die. They can be sick for months and if you’re not constantly looking you can easily miss something. 9 out of 10 times it’s a water problem.