Making Mistakes - 55g planted tank (mis)adventure

[ravvlet]

I'm afraid that he wants to do what he wants to do. Giving good advice is futile.

Hi! I’m actually female! I really appreciate you taking the time to post and try to help, and it sounds like I’ve frustrated you, for which I apologize.

[ravvlet]

Liz I am sure that its not that they dont recognize the advice is good... its really because the advice conflicts with alot of whats been pasted as pics into books and magazines. And on social media where discus are shown in these kinds of tanks frequently... though theres no real log of how well they do long term. People see discus in a certain light and want to.emulate that.

Its really unfortunate but the truth is that Discus being the magestic looking fish they are often used as eye candy in planted tanks that really are not best for their long term health and growth.

It takes alot to make discus in a planted tank work and its just adding a huge handicap if the tank is too small.

Its something that has been an issue forever on forums.

Al

Yes, I am really struggling with the fact that I’m being told one thing here - and you guys obviously sound like you know what you are doing - but then elsewhere I’m being told by folks who say they’ve been breeding discus since the 90s, and this and that is fine, and what not. It’s kind of a lot! I don’t think I’ve ever done research on a fish, plant, or other pet with so much contradictory information, and as I stated previously, I keep parrots!

[ravvlet]

So ok, if I don’t keep discus, what’s a better similar fish for this tank, in your opinion? Angelfish? I believe the last time I kept them, they were not too hard on my plants, and with a sufficient group of them and sight breaks they did ok with larger schools of tetra.

I have never had African cichlids and I’d be hesitant to put them in with all these plants; I do have a successful goldfish planted tank but I am willing to bet it’s only a matter of time before our lovely big carp starts rooting around in the substrate like he’s intended to, so that was always meant to just be a fun experiment - I don’t think I want to do a larger goldfish tank.

I would love a larger tank. I can afford a larger tank. What I can’t afford right now is a whole new set of furniture, haha, which is what I would need to cram a larger tank down here… I was actually just working on a blueprint for a tall, narrow, wall anchored nano shrimp rack so I can keep my color breeding colonies separate from my fish tanks so I never decimate their population from tank predation.

Would it be more ethical to keep lower grade discus? Myrtle beach has B grade which I assume otherwise get culled? I dunno. I am tired and not really sure who is correct as I’ve never kept them before, and feeling pretty bummed out about the entire experience.

[ravvlet]

And Happy Thanksgiving, to those who celebrate!

[brewmaster15]

Yes, I am really struggling with the fact that I’m being told one thing here - and you guys obviously sound like you know what you are doing - but then elsewhere I’m being told by folks who say they’ve been breeding discus since the 90s, and this and that is fine, and what not. It’s kind of a lot! I don’t think I’ve ever done research on a fish, plant, or other pet with so much contradictory information, and as I stated previously, I keep parrots!

If I had a dollar for everytime I read about someone who has been breeding and keeping Discus since the 90s that then follows up with bad advice that shows the really dont have a clue ..I'd be rich.

Unfortunately the internet is full of experts. Who to believe is a hard call for a novice. I will state this..the forum was started in 2002... and has a ton of documented information. Some of us have been keeping discus since before that. .. and its documented. The rest is up to you.

[brewmaster15]

So ok, if I don’t keep discus, what’s a better similar fish for this tank, in your opinion? Angelfish? I believe the last time I kept them, they were not too hard on my plants, and with a sufficient group of them and sight breaks they did ok with larger schools of tetra.

Look at dwarf cichlids.. Im really fond of Laetacara dorsigera and. Keyhole cichlids, festivums.. theres so many neat fish....

https://badmanstropicalfish.com/laetacara-dorsigera/

Would it be more ethical to keep lower grade discus? Myrtle beach has B grade which I assume otherwise get culled? I dunno. I am tired and not really sure who is correct as I’ve never kept them before, and feeling pretty bummed out about the entire experience.

Grade B discus may be easier on your wallet but are not really more ethical to keep than good quality discus. ..if you go that route you may be happier initially but it will fade.

Im sorry its not going as you planned here with the tank... We are trying to help you not make mistakes .. ultimately you need to decide. We would like you to succeed but it really comes down to keeping the discus in a way that they thrive... giving them what they need. Thats often at odds with what a novice wants in the tank. Fish needs dont always go along with Hobbyist wants. We tend to focus on the Discus here..makes sense since we are dedicated to DISCUS.

[Iminit]

Well my take on this is if you’d like to try discus it can be done. But not with what you started. To have the best results as a beginner it’s best to go bare bottom. Just discus. Learn the fish first. As your reading hear it’s the easiest way. You may be able to get to the planted tank. But not as a beginner.

It is a shame what is out there on Facebook. But as you see the planted tanks with discus you must also read the threads about sick fish where there are 100 different ways to cure your fish. All this advice and nobody ever asks what’s wrong with the fish. So many just need to give their opinions. 90% of the planted tanks pictured have sick looking discus in them. It’s just a shame.

[ravvlet]

Look at dwarf cichlids.. Im really fond of Laetacara dorsigera and. Keyhole cichlids, festivums.. theres so many neat fish....

https://badmanstropicalfish.com/laetacara-dorsigera/




Grade B discus may be easier on your wallet but are not really more ethical to keep than good quality discus. ..if you go that route you may be happier initially but it will fade.

Im sorry its not going as you planned here with the tank... We are trying to help you not make mistakes .. ultimately you need to decide. We would like you to succeed but it really comes down to keeping the discus in a way that they thrive... giving them what they need. Thats often at odds with what a novice wants in the tank. Fish needs dont always go along with Hobbyist wants. We tend to focus on the Discus here..makes sense since we are dedicated to DISCUS.

Oh, those are cool. What about ram cichlids? I ask because they also come in the brighter colorations (blue with red eyes!!)- but would they have the same issue with water quality?

Is this tank also too small for a group of angelfish? I keep thinking about that big pretty pinoy male they had at auction. Most folks around here raise koi, which are pretty, but I like the darker color varieties with less red!

[ravvlet]

So, I’ve been thinking about doing a tank rack of nano tanks for my shrimp, as I have cherries, snowball, blue dream, and orange bee shrimp so far and they’re all doing well and I’d like to keep isolated breeding groups for each color, as they’re really sought after around here (and nice to look at). It might be possible to move the sand and most of the plants into smaller 3-5g tanks on a rack running sponge filters.

If I strip the tank down to the jungle Val, the driftwood with ferns, and a thin layer of substrate (Val likes its crown above anyway with only roots buried), OR put the Val in pots and go bare bottom, would I then be able to put 3-3.5in discus in it, or is it just a too small tank no matter what?

I got the idea from this old thread - https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...t-2&highlight= I cannot tell what size this tank is, only that they started with the same idea I did, haha.

[Iminit]

Yes that would be a better start. Put the Val’s in a pot and go bare bottom with the wood and pots. 3-3.5” discus will be fine. You could do as many as 6 in a 55. Buy from one of the sponsors here. Just better fish! Try to buy all from same vendor at the same time.
Your tank will work. You want to do it!. You’ll get lots of good help here!

[ravvlet]

Ok! I am just VERY GLAD PETCO is having a tank sale…their 3g rimless are $25 and come with a lid, and then I saw one guy just go and use their plastic critter keepers for a shrimp rack as they’re clear, durable, and 3g each also!

I also have seen some nifty planters where they look like rocks but have a basin for the plant. I’ll look around. I can at least build the stand for free…the wood shop in the Makerspace I am a member of is overrun with scrap wood pieces, and I think I remember seeing lots of 2x4s…

Ok. The plan now is to tear down tomorrow; and put the shrimp and plants into a bin with a sponge filter if I have to, but hopefully my local PETCO will have enough tanks left from the sale! I definitely have the hardware to set them up with sponge filters that I can run split from this original air pump. In fact; I don’t need a new rack. I think I can fit them on the shelving I made for this stand. Just need to kick the kids toys off it; been meaning to do that anyway, LOL…

Edit: spoke too soon! I don’t have extra sponges. Dang. Ordered some but they won’t be here till Saturday. But I can at least pull up plants and sort them into the tanks with some water whilst I wait for the filters. Plus if I’m being honest, it would be a lot nicer of me to let the nano tanks run a bit before dumping the poor shrimp in them. They’ve only been in their fancy big 55 for a week after all, and I’m already evicting them. It’s their fault for being really pretty! The blue in particular have quite a few really nice ones.

[LizStreithorst]

This is wonderful news. Rams are tougher than Discus, but still particular about water quality. I have both Rams and Discus. The only thing I'd suggest if you start with Discus is that you go with 5 or 6. With only 3, 1 always ends up being stunted due to bullying.

[ravvlet]

Yep. I was planning on doing 6. Golden state has an assorted option where you get dealer’s choice on colors and that sounded fun for me and the kids.

Rams are gorgeous! But I really do want to do discus, so I’m going to tear down and try to do this right.

[LizStreithorst]

Before you decided to re-think, I was going to lobby for Rainbow fish in that tank. I have a 100 gallon right slam in the middle of my fishroom as something of a centerpiece. I'm not good at plants like you I just have an Amazon sword, some Java fern, Anubis, and a nice plant that I can't remember the name of glued to driftwood. It is by no means like what you could create, but with all the active colorful fish and plants, it's still a pretty centerpiece.

[ravvlet]

Thanks! I honestly have no idea why the plants are working for me; I credit the water here haha. Very soft neutral PH, and I use Thrive ferts and root tabs.

All my tanks are “jungle” tanks, stuffed to the brim with plants, but that one guy’s thread (and another in the contest forum, plus the one linked here) sold me on a more minimal layout. It’s still pretty and still incorporates plants, but it’s less busy looking which is really really nice and not something I’ve had the restraint to attempt yet.

Is it ok to have a thin layer (an inch or less) of white sand? The bottom of this tank has a lot of unsightly scratches from being used with gravel. Plus, if I throw some c. Sterbai as an alternative clean up crew to shrimp they prefer a sanded bottom. I do not intend to root any plants in the substrate; it’s just a bottom to create a cleaner look.