Weird spot on forehead...

[jwcarlson]

Which antibiotic do you think would be the best to start with, Al? I don't disagree with your assessment, either.

[brewmaster15]

You would cover the bases best with kanamycin .. and that can be dosed with metronidazole.

[jwcarlson]

What dose for kanamycin, do you think? And where to buy it, I don't see it on Jehmco unfortunately.

[seanyuki]

Try Dena Edwards at Everything Aquatics for pure kanamycin

https://everythingaquatic.net/product/kanamycin/

From what I read dosage for kanamycin Fish Disease Treatment: 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. Treat every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment. Treat for 10 days.

https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/...items%2Fsearch

What dose for kanamycin, do you think? And where to buy it, I don't see it on Jehmco unfortunately.

[jeep]

Dena was also offering 50% off on her website for Black Friday. I'm not sure if the sale is still in effect...

[seanyuki]

Black Friday Sales
Save up to 50% during our Black Friday Sales! Savings are storewide.
Don’t forget to check back on Small Business Saturday as well as on Cyber Monday for other sales during this holiday weekend!

https://everythingaquatic.net/



IMG_5136.jpgIMG_5136.jpg

[jwcarlson]

Ok. Here's what I've done and want to run past the brain trust here.

I always keep my discus at 85. Today I turned it down to 82 figuring cooler is better regarding possible bacterial infection.

I'm not totally without meds as I bought a bunch of stuff when I first started. I have 16 grams of metro which is about four doses in my 75 gallon tank. I do not have pure kanamycin, but I do have Seachem's Kanaplex and I have enough to two full doses of that.

Just ordered Kanamycin and Metro powders from Everything Aquatic (thanks for that suggestion). I'm going to guess that won't be here immediately, so I have a few days to bridge. So my question is, what would you do? I am considering feeding the Kanaplex in some bloodworms, I think I can at least get some meds in them that way. They're still eating well and I think they'd at least get going by eating some. I do hate dosing in food because how in the world do I know who is getting what...
Anyway, looking for ideas. If kanamycin is active in the water for greater than 24 hours, I'd be OK dosing every couple of days and that would bridge the gap until the pure stuff gets here.

Another option is to just do 90% daily water changes + salt until the meds get here.

Thanks in advance.

[jeep]

I've read a lot about lowering temp in possible bacterial issues, and I've read a lot about increasing temp. The theory is that increasing temp speeds up the life cycle, but lowering temp inhibits it. So many different opinions...

I would keep things as is and do the water changes and salt until meds arrive. Not much else you can do...

[brewmaster15]

Jacob.. can you put the two fish in a smaller hospital tank? And start dosing?

Alternatively.. depending on your filter it may be loud but you can also drop the tanks water level .. run it at 50% and you double the amount of dosing days you have meds for.

On the temp.. the difference between 82 and 85 is probably neglible but when bacteria is suspected lowering it better unless you are positive that the medication you are using is effective against the bacteria. If you have the right medication running the tank a little warmer can help by speeding up the bacteria life cycle. .. most antibiotics target that. It may also boost a fishes metabolism and immune response.

But.. if you have the wrong medication for the pathogen... it can make things much worse.

To quote Clint" do you feel lucky ?"

..I'm not a fan of using heat for bacteria... we almost always are guessing there.

[jwcarlson]

I could separate them, Al. I don't currently have anything set up for them, but I could spin something up. I'll think about it today.

Last night I mixed a scoop of kanaplex into blood worms and fed them. I'll continue to do that after the nightly water change until I get the meds to dose the whole water column. The two affected ones ate well.

Here's a picture of the second fish. I almost cannot believe that this was there and I just didn't see it. But, if it started on one of his marking lines and eventually got bigger or ruptured like Al described, I suppose it's possible.

20231126_130242.jpg

Anyway... mentally beating myself up over this. I don't feel like I've neglected them or anything. Doing at least 2x, but normally 3x 90% water changes a week. It's disappointing... I don't know how else to describe it. It would be one thing if I'd quit doing water changes for a month or something.

[brewmaster15]

Jacob,
I don't think this is a case of you neglecting them or doing something wrong. You have been taking very good care of them but sometimes when we take care of critters.. things happen out of our control. Had the pleasure of spending $1000 on my cat with animal hospital a short while ago. We baby our cats..nothing was different, nothing was changed or neglected. It just happens. (Thankfully my cat recovered fine, my wallet not so much).

Don't beat yourself up over it.

al

[jwcarlson]

Sorry to hear about your cat, the costs of owning a cat/dog anymore are almost unbelievable. We have two cats and two dogs. The cats are getting pretty old (like 17 and 16), but the dogs are young. The standard dog checkup anymore is about $300 and we're not even in a big city or anything.

That said, you can't tell me how to feel and I'll continue to beat myself up over it. haha
I do appreciate your consolation, I think deep down I realize it's not something I purposely caused or anything like that. If nothing else, it feels like I should have seen it sooner.

[brewmaster15]

That said, you can't tell me how to feel and I'll continue to beat myself up over it. haha
I do appreciate your consolation, I think deep down I realize it's not something I purposely caused or anything like that. If nothing else, it feels like I should have seen it sooner.

Lol... two holes on the heads of fish. Kids.. 2 cats.. two dogs..Thanksgiving..chickens.. hunting season .. work... breeding sterbai.. Yep no excuse for missing a hole on two fish... for shame!
Al

[Red Eye.]

Looks like the start of a node. Maybe a scratch? I’d add some salt to the water and up your water changes till it goes away.

I'm afraid it looks a lot like hole in the head.

I would add 3-4TBS salt per 10g. This looks like more than simple HITH to me and I would hate to see this abscess.

Well from the first statement that the fish is known for accidents. I’m thinking it’s a cut and not hith. I’d start with the salt. I like to start slowly that’s why I said 1tbs and daily water changes. Which I think Jacob does already. More salt won’t hurt and will probably heal it quicker. If a cut it should heal quickly.

Jacob,
I'm going to be more aggressive here than everyone else. All the advice you got was good advice for simple hith or minor infections or scrapes.
But you noticed it 10 days ago. That rules out alot. When I look at the pics I see white center.. and I see a hole that starts to crater at the margins.. that means its probably bigger underneath. Theres a good chance theres an abcess there.

I think a hospital tank and antibiotics would be better. I dont think metronidazole alone will treat this kanamycin would be good or maracyn 2. If neither are availible..

https://www.tetra-fish.com/products/...d-tablets.aspx

Contains nitrofurozone.. a good alternative.

I think its likely that hole is going to get bigger and more infected otherwise.

Al

Tested water today. Nitrates less than 5 ppm. It's HITH, another has a worse spot that's kind of camouflaged. Really discouraged. What's the metro dose again? I have 16 grams left and need to order more to do a full 12 day course.

Usually dosage for metronidazole is 500 mg per 10 gallons for 12 days.


Usually QUOTE=jwcarlson;1380455]Tested water today. Nitrates less than 5 ppm. It's HITH, another has a worse spot that's kind of camouflaged. Really discouraged. What's the metro dose again? I have 16 grams left and need to order more to do a full 12 day course.

[/QUOTE]

Jehmco.com for metro. They ship fast.

Im going to go out on a limb here.. this isnt "HITH" caused by hexamita/spiro. Its a hole that happens to be in the head and to me its probably bacterial.

The fact that theres no white feces from any of the tank occupants really goes against this being hexamita causing "HITH"..


Classic HITH doesnt affect a single pit on a fish.. its something that erodes away multiple pores over an extended period time. The rapid onset of your fishes hole.. its size .. the puss all indicate to me localized bacterial infections. If it is this, Metro will not work. Having a second fish with only one sore again indicates bacteria. ..not protozoan. Metronidazole only treats protozoans and a small number of anaerobic bacteria (gut bacteria).


I really think you need an antibiotic.. these can be dosed with metro in case my guess here is wrong but I really dont think metro is the answer.

I think theres a good chance that white spot will rupture soon and there will be a larger hole.

Which antibiotic do you think would be the best to start with, Al? I don't disagree with your assessment, either.

I could separate them, Al. I don't currently have anything set up for them, but I could spin something up. I'll think about it today.

Last night I mixed a scoop of kanaplex into blood worms and fed them. I'll continue to do that after the nightly water change until I get the meds to dose the whole water column. The two affected ones ate well.

Here's a picture of the second fish. I almost cannot believe that this was there and I just didn't see it. But, if it started on one of his marking lines and eventually got bigger or ruptured like Al described, I suppose it's possible.

20231126_130242.jpg

Anyway... mentally beating myself up over this. I don't feel like I've neglected them or anything. Doing at least 2x, but normally 3x 90% water changes a week. It's disappointing... I don't know how else to describe it. It would be one thing if I'd quit doing water changes for a month or something.

What did you do in the End?........would a very high temp sort this out have read up too 36deg??? what would this do.

[jwcarlson]

Kanamycin just arrived today. Going to do 90% water change and redose it every evening for 10 days.
I am going to hold off on metro as I agree with Al that there's not really any symptoms of hex. Everything is eating well and still behaving well. Have been doing daily 90% changes every night this week. Was doing heavy salt, but have cut that back for now.