after Quarantine - what to expect…

[For100]

Morning all,

As you probably know my tank is going thru an outbreak after I introduced 4 new fish (first time in a decade this happens to me). I followed a strict 6 wk quarantine process and used a hero fish to check if there was any issues (fish from different breeder, all Asian). I guess having 3 different group of fish brings more complexity to the quarantine process.

This being a controversial topic, I am NOT trying to stir the pot but rather learn from this experience. So, I would like to pick your brains on the after quarantine process.

Let’s assume you only have two group of fish from different breeders. There are 3 outcomes I can think of after introducing the hero fish in the quarantine tank.

A) Nothing happens, everything is good.
B) New fish have an adverse reaction. Then, you treat new fish in the quarantine tank. Hopefully, you control the outbreak.
C) hero fish has an adverse reaction.

Around outcome C. What do you do next? You know your display tank fish will get sick. Do you buy medicines ahead of time before introducing new fish? What treatment do you use? Salt, antibioticsm formalin? Do you treat your display tank or your quarantine tank or both?

Hope to hear back from you.

PS: if you wonder what happened to my fish. Your guess is as good as mine. I left town for Xmas vacation after 5 antibiotic (nitrofurane + methylene blue) treatments, no dead before I left but sick fish did not look any better. Definitely, it is an external issue. Either velvet or costia, sick fish displayed some skin abrasions after day 3.

Just afraid of consequences for the entire tank if fish died before I come back. ;(

[Iminit]

Here’s a thread I have here. I went through the same thing. I had many different seller discus. Was lucky for years. Than I got a cross contamination (cc). https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...ing-for-help!!.
As to your question. It’s a good one. Never been there. But would guess the tank with the now sick hero fish you would heal the sick fish. Medicating the fish with it thus killing whatever it is they have too. Now all being healthy they should be good to go. Or start a new tank for the new ones and the hero.

[For100]

Here’s a thread I have here. I went through the same thing. I had many different seller discus. Was lucky for years. Than I got a cross contamination (cc). https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...ing-for-help!!.
As to your question. It’s a good one. Never been there. But would guess the tank with the now sick hero fish you would heal the sick fish. Medicating the fish with it thus killing whatever it is they have too. Now all being healthy they should be good to go. Or start a new tank for the new ones and the hero.

Thanks Tom, I am familiar with what happened to you. Good thing that everything turned around for you!

I my case, hero fish did not get sick but I have three different set of breeders from Asia. Worst part of all, new fish were my 50 year gift to myself. What a NICE surprise having quarantined fish and find out a week before Xmas vacay that half of display fish got sick after introducing new fish.

It would be nice to hear from other people if they keep medications at hand prior to introduce new fish. I read Brian uses nitrofurane as first line of defense, which gives me some hope because I used the same. Just wonder if it is effective against Protozoa (Costia or velvet).

[seanyuki]

My medicine cabinet.
Acriflavine .....for new arrivals.
Metronidazole..... Hexamita (not a worm but a parasitic flagellate)
Flubendazole..... Anchor worms(copepod)
Praziquantel..... Tapeworm(cestodes)
Levamisole..... Round worms(nematodes)
Nitrofurazone..... combat a wide variety of gram-positive & gram-negative bacterial diseases.
kanamycin..... treat many sensitive gram–negative and some gram–positive bacteria.
PP…..potassium permanganate......external parasites
Methylene Blue..... Treats fungal infections on fertile fish eggs.
F & MG…..formalin & malachite green.....external parasites
Coarse salt..... assist osmoregulation problems caused by bacterial ulcers; help clear congested gills as well as supporting fish suffering from stress.
Epsom salt.....bloated/swim bladder

Hydro Peroxide.....neutralize PP
Seachem Prime/ Safe.....water conditioner
Digital scale( measure medication)

[brewmaster15]

Freddy I dont believe you have a protozoan issue.. (Costia or velvet). The. Timing is all off for that. i believe you have a viral problem.... and you cant treat for virus.. what you are seeing externally is the fishes immune system in overdrive and opportunistic bacteria and fungus.. antibiotics and various chemicals like pp and fmg dont work against virus.. they can help with the secondary bacteria and fungus..

Unfortunately the hobby is full of Testimonies that describe what people used in their desparation as being successful but no one ever could ID the actual problem.

If this was viral which makes the most sense there literally was nothing you or anyone else could have done to prevent it.

Al

[For100]

Thanks Francis, if I understood correctly you keep these at all times. My cabinet is more limited (all in pure form, no brand name medications):

Nitrofurazone green (antibiotic + methylene blue). There is another version that combines antibiotic + acriflavine.
Metronidazole
Levamisole
Prazi


Al,

Understood. Not arguing at this point, just trying to learn from this. I did everything I could after the initial issue, dosed salt and antibiotic+methylene blue (combine medication).

Can you share your thoughts about scenario C described above? What would be the course of action you take?

PS: hoping for a Xmas miracle when I go back home , it is hard to have a glass half full mentally when you are 1000 miles away.

[brewmaster15]

C) hero fish has an adverse reaction.

Around outcome C. What do you do next? You know your display tank fish will get sick. Do you buy medicines ahead of time before introducing new fish? What treatment do you use? Salt, antibioticsm formalin? Do you treat your display tank or your quarantine tank or both?

Freddy what you do has to be based on what happened. We arent pathologists . At that point depending on what happened and. The hobbyists skill level..A pathologist may be needed. Its really hard to say.. 99.9% of the time with a lengthy qt period and hero fish you dont have an issue and theres a reason why.


You might think its because you did an awesome job at keeping them separate 6 weeks or longer and thats why no one gets sick most of the time. The first few weeks of getting new fish and qt is to let them physically heal. Fins, slimecoat, and gills all get damaged by handling and transport and skin and gills are key as a first line of defense. So that makes sense but the real reason to do a lengthy quarantine .is 1) to give pathogens a chance to show and 2) its to give the fish time to slowly get introduced to new bacteria and virus. No matter how good you think you are at QT... odds are water droplets and moisture in a room or home will carry bacterias and virus from room to room. Even the protozoan Oodinium has been shown to spread easily at 10 feet.

Sorry to not to answer SCENARIO C.. specifically. Theres just too many factors.

I also need to caution people. Having an arsenal of medications on hand without understanding both the medication and its use as well as understanding about disease organisms and how ID and effectively treat them probably kills more fish than anything else. Knowledge is a powerful thing.. ignorance is a dangerous one.. and by far the worst is when we think we understand that which we really dont.

I hope your fish are fine when you return. ..unless there was a biofilter issue I think they will be. Its just bad luck it happened while you are away. Water changes can really make a difference with illnesses.

[Iminit]

Al thank you! So true! Francis not you! I’m 100% sure you know all about those meds. Me not so much. So many will buy that whole list and whatever else is available. Then use them all!
Me my med cabinet is much smaller.
Prazi pro
Metro
Meth blue (for eggs)
Poly-guard
Salt
Epson salt (though more for plants than fish )
Rid-ich plus (seen it work on cc and have read from many others that it’s worked for them)

That’s it. I qt all fish and all plants get put in my shrimp tanks for a few months before I move them to other tanks. Everything grows in my shrimp tanks. As Al said qt is twofold. Just the time in qt helps all fish build up their immunity. Cardinal and rummie nose tetras do great after a few months in qt. They grow and get fat before entering your main tanks.
Thing is even after a long wet with your discus doing great in qt and with hero fish it’s no guarantee. I had 3 great looking discus from golden state. In qt for maybe 2-3 months. Added to main tank and all 3 stressed and were dead within 6 months. Nothing else in the tank were affected. All 3 were removed but never recovered. So you never know what is going wrong. Things just happen.