Stocking questions

[Johanna]

Hi all, it's my first post here This is a great resource, I've already learned so much here! I'm a 'returning' hobbyist; have had regular community tanks non stop for over 30 years and tried discus with rather disappointing results some 10+ years ago. Since I updated my current tank last summer, I decided to dedicate it to discus and do everything better this time. Everything seems to be ok for now except for some aggression issues...

So my setup right now is as follows:

660 l tank (200cmx55cmx60cm height)
Filtration Fluval FX6 + Eheim Classic 2217 (contain mechanical + biological filtration + peat granules) + Eheim powerline 2252 + 2 air stones
Water parameters pH 7,2 KH 2 NO2 0 NO3 <12,5 Temp. 28,5C
Substrate: 2-5cm sand + fertilizer granules
Lots of driftwood and well-growing plants.
Water changes 30-40% + siphoning on top of the sand every 3-4 days (tap water + de-chlorinator)

Livestock:
7 discus, size 10 cm-14 cm (2 pairs) - I've had them for 4 months now.
2 big male angel fish
remnants of a very old school of H. columbianus tetras (4 at the moment)
lots of Melanoides snails and a few assassin snails
7 different small(ish) plecos

Especially since the two pairs formed, there has been a lot of fighting over food and territories and one of the smaller discus is targeted by all. I do not intend to breed discus and I'd prefer if they didn't spawn in the community tank. I've been advised to get more of them to spread out the aggression and deter them from spawning.

So. My question is.... How would you stock this tank to diminish the aggression? How many discus should I add, I don't want to overstock or change water every day. Is it true that discus don't grow if they are spawning and fighting?

And another question re. the clean up crew.... even with adding a few discus, would it still be a good idea to bring in a school of corydoras or maybe tetras (not both) to help clean out the finer food particles that discus and angels don't eat? Plecos do eat it but they are very fat and so much meat protein is probably not very healthy for them?

(Edit to add: Yes I'm going to quarantine anything new that eventually goes into the tank!)

[brewmaster15]

Hi Johanna,
Welcome to Simply Discus! And welcome back to the hobby. Could you share some pics of your tank? It will make advising you more relevent to your situation.

Also can you tell what happened 10 Years ago with your discus keeping that didnt work out?

Glad you found us!

[Johanna]

Sure. It's a bit ungroomed at the moment but here's a pic. 385531822_1422587731666886_5864100233889721186_n.jpg

As for what happened the last time... I did not take my research seriously. I did read in advance but didn't follow the "rules" very strictly so... started out with a smallish tank, not enough filtration, not enough water changes, introduced new fish without quarantine, bought them here and there on a whim, got parasite and bacterial infections. I had some good moments in there, a couple of spawns even but ultimately I lost many fish and gave away the rest when I got discouraged. I want to avoid all the stupid mistakes now if I can.

[brewmaster15]

Johanna,
You have a very nice looking tank. Normally discus do better in larger groups than smaller to spread out aggression but I am afraid you won't be able to deter them from breeding in that tank. The only way to do that is really over stock the discus which would mean daily water changes and would ruin the aesthetic of your tank. You could try adding a few more discus but I don't think it will help. A little aggression in a discus tank is normal. Often people are just not used to seeing their normally docile Discus remind us that they are cichlids. A little in-fighting is healthy and shows you are giving them good condition to live.

I have a video here....https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...y-are-Cichlids that shows really aggressive discus, I posted it to put in perspective what real "aggression" is with Discus. I have found that most of the time hobbyists see some sparring and chasing and worry they have an aggression problem...most of the time they don't. As for one getting picked on, there is usually one in group that is the bottom of the hierarchy and often its the smallest. If you remove that one, the next usually takes its place.

I appreciate your background info, It sounds like you have researched better and figured out what went wrong. We have a few planted tank folks here that can comment more on the substrate and plantings.I am more of a bare tank or potted plants keeper. I find keeping a substrate tank clean enough for discus to be a royal head ache...beautiful though these tanks are.

I hope to see more posts from you on how this all works out,

al

[Johanna]

Thank you! You are probably right and I'm just overly worried over normal behaviour. The aggression I'm seeing isn't nearly as bad as in your video. I'm just a bit concerned about the one at the bottom of the hierarchy as it's hiding most of the time except when eating. Whenever it comes out others chase it back into hiding. I try to make sure that one also gets enough food but not sure if it is sufficient in the long run. For now he looks healthy and not too thin IMO. Also one of the breeding males got his eye injured when he was guarding the eggs.... it has healed back to normal now but gave me a scare.

Talking today with my fishes' breeder I've decided to try adding 4 new fish, about 10-12cm and let's see how that goes.

I'm still open to all comments and advice, especially regarding the clean-up crew and whether I should get some corydoras or tetras or not. Would they just be unnecessary bioload or actual help keeping the tank and substrate clean?

Also.... I'm considering getting rid of that big bunch of Ceratopteris on the left because it grows too much (doesn't like trimming, the leaves on the underside start to die) and gathers debris and sheds loose leaves all the time so that might help with the overall cleanness too.

[brewmaster15]

Many find sterbai to work really well with discus and they should help clean up foods that lodge in the plants out of discus reach. Just be sure to Quarantine them.. if you can find them hobby bred thats preferable to lfs imports.(disease concerns)

A school of tetras can be added as well. Rummy nose have worked well for many. Cardinals can as well and are usually safe from all but the biggest discus. My only concern with cardinals is those two big male angels may go after them.. my big angels were pretty good at hunting cardinals. That doesnt mean yours will though.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Johanna and welcome to SimplyDiscus and back in the hobby. Al gave you great advice and I want to add what a beautiful tank you have there. Personally I suck at aquarium plants so I do not mess with them. I generally keep either bare bottom or wood with a light sand bottom. I currently do not have any fish however ATM.
Pat

[Johanna]

Many thanks to both of you! Sorry for the video spam, I just made a youtube channel for my fish vids and uploaded a few.

Here's a feeding clip from about a week ago, shows a bit of the aggression but this isn't the worst. Just to show that the small blue one always gets chased away.


I have got my 4 new arrivals in quarantine now, looking good so far. They are from the same breeder as my previous discus so hopefully minimizing some risks there.


As I only have the one qt tank I need to wait with any other fish until the new discus can be moved to the main tank. I think sterbai are the next, maybe 8-10? If only I can find them directly from a breeder, I don't know if anyone around here breeds them. If not, I might be able to ask the lfs to order them for me specifically, so that I go pick them up as soon as they arrive and they don't spend any time at the store's aquariums.

And yes... I ended up removing the plant, which I think makes the tank look cleaner and more spacious immediately. But now I hate that filter intake being visible, have to figure out something to cover it.


My tanks have always been planted but low-tech, only recently I have come to appreciate the look of a more simplistic discus tank. I'll switch to that if needed but so far I think my plants and fish can co-exist and I can put in an hour of maintenance work a couple times a week.

[brewmaster15]

That video of the aggression is normal and healthy Discus behavior at feeding .If you look close the main aggression is by one fish thats basically hogging the food. You can minimize that by feeding at several locations in the tank. Also the video shows that little guy giving it back a bit which is good and not getting pushed out of feeding.