Discus with exposed Gill Membrane not eating

[Kangela]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Noticed exposed gill membrane approximately 2 weeks ago.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Discus was not eating very well. As far as I can tell looks like he is no longer eating.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

* Tried aquarium salt 1 tsp per 10 gallons for 3 days, no improvement
* 50% water changes for 5 days, no improvement
* General Cure 2 Tbsp per 120 gallons, per instructions with a repeat dose 48 hrs later, no improvement

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

120g aquarium, approximately 2 years old, 8 discus, sizes between 5.5 and 7 inches, 18 Sterbai Cory

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

40 percent water change, every 3 days

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Tank has been running for 2 years, approximately 1/4 inch of Caribsea naturals sand (in some areas a bit less) for the Sterbia. Sand is stirred up every water change and detritus removed.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No I do not aged my water

8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 84 degrees Celsius

- ph between 8 and 8.2

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading ~20 to ~30

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- municipal water dechlorinated with Prime

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Nothing new added to the tank for the last 8 months.

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

Fish get fed 3 times a day. Rotate through Live White worms (home cultured for the last 3 years), Sera Discus Color, Sera Discus Immunopro, California freeze dried blackworms with spinach and without, Nutrafin Bug Bites, Frozen and freeze dried brine shrimp, frozen Mysis Shrimp, occasional treat of live Daphnia (home cultured for 3 years)

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.DiscusGillMembrane.jpg

[brewmaster15]

Serious infections like bacterial gill infections are possible if this was rapid onset. If you have been seeing the gills looking weird or laboring awhile it could be a bad case if gill flukes or if the fish has been exposed to excessive chemicals like formalin or Potassium permanganate it can cause scar tissue that makes it look like the gills are protruding.

Can you post some profile pics so we can see the gills better?

Al

[Kangela]

[20240107_183106.jpg Hard to get a good picture where you can see the gill membrane clearly as it is so light. I've also attached a videohttps://youtube.com/shorts/H98czXJdKnY?feature=share which shows it better

[Kangela]

Don't think it is gill flukes (but I am certainly no expert) as gills are a healthy pink, no mucus, no flashing or rubbing and no recent additions to the tank. Tank has dedicated water change equipment to avoid contamination with my other discus tanks. Tank has not been treated with formalin or Potassium permanganate. I've had this Discus and his seven tank mates since they were 2.5 inches and they are now all between 6 and 7.5 inches. No issue or sickness for the last 2 years until now

[danotaylor]

I had a discus like that. It was eating & behaving normally. Was a mystery to me
You could try increasing the salt concentration to 1tbsp/1gallon. I did this with a mystery illness and was terrified about that high a concentration for fish that come froma 0 TDS environment. Brian (Jeep) assured me that they can handle it, and they did, and the mystery illness was cured. It was not a gill issue, but if bacterial, as Al postulated, salt will disrupt the life cycle and maybe give you a win. Nice looking discus BTW

[Kangela]

Thanks he is one of two eruptions I have and even when he's sick and at half color he's a looker. Appreciate you sharing. Did you treat the discus in your main tank or remove to a quarantine tank. Asking as less stress in treating him in place and if it is bacterial in nature - wouldn't I need to treat the whole tank? Thanks again for responding.

[danotaylor]

I treated in the main tank because I had multiple casualties simultaneously. It was during a "hero fish" introduction testing to see if I could merge 2 groups from different sources. However I did not have live plants. Not sure live plants would tolerate the high salt levels over the course of the treatment. You could remove the plants though and reintroduce after the salt treatment is completed.
If it is bacterial, and this discus is the only one affected, we could assume that the immune systems of the other fish are strong enough to keep it at bay (or it's not what we are suspecting, in which case the salt will do no harm ). If you don't have live plants you could treat in the main tank. I would increase your water changes to 60-70% every 3 days to reduce the bacterial load more efficiently, and replace the salt at the same concentration for 7-10 days then reduce by half for a further 7 days, and then if things have returned to normal go back to the WC schedule that has worked for your set up.

[Kangela]

Thanks for all your advice. Will start in the morning when I can keep an eye on them. Don't mind telling you that I am scared to try this at 1 TBSP per gallon. Don't really much care about the plants I can always replace but will be removing the Sterbai Cory in the tank as I don't think they will survive salt at those levels. Crossing fingers, toes and everything else that this works with no fatalities. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond. Your help is appreciated more than you know. Thanks again.

[danotaylor]

It's my pleasure. It is difficult to prescribe a treatment for an unknown cause. I hope we get a win here. I understand your angst for sure with regards to the salt concentration, but rest assured, I would not recommend it if it hadn't proven effective for me. I also believe that Al, Liz, Pat & Brian would chime in here and tell you that this aussie has lost his marbles and not to listen. Like I said though, since we don't really know what we are treating it may or may not correct the gill issue in your Eruption, but I do know from experience that your discus will tolerate the salt level without issue. As for the Cory's I cannot comment, so it is a wise move to remove them, unless someone else can confirm their salt tolerance. I am hoping for the best possible outcome here as well!

[Red Eye.]

Top Stuff...the A team have helped again. good luck remember about water change's as bacteria can grow very quick.....

Would a UV help....?

[brewmaster15]

1 tablespoon salt (level.. not heaping) per 1 gal sounds like alot of salt but really isnt... discus have no problem with it for a treatment time of 7-10 days.

Looking at the fish in question I suspect this is scar tissue. It always presents itself in older fish. Most likely damage done to the gills at an early age from either caustic chemicals (formalin,fmg, pp, ammonia etc) or heavy fluke infections/bacterial infection. The good news is though its unsightly to look at most discus survive with it. Often the gills are impaired though and as a site of gas exchange and ammonia excretion it can be a stress factor and disease precursor. The not so great news is scar tissue is permanent.


The fish in question still has good mass to it which is a good sign. The not eating could be somethng unrelated to the gills.

I would suggest a hospital tank.. You need to isolate the fish to see if its eating. How much and if it starts pasding any off colored feces.

If its bacterial and the other fish are not affected it will be easier to treat in a hospital tank.


I would also like to see pics of the other fish and the tank. Sometimes it helps us better guess what the problem.is..

[Kangela]

A bit confused, the Eruption is only 2 years old. I've had this fish from a 2.5 inch size and have never had to treat the tank with anything so definitely none of the meds you mentioned have been used. The only thing that has gone into the tank has been fresh water and Prime conditioner. Tank was fully cycled prior to any fish being added, daily water changes until all discus had reached 5 inches then thrice weekly 40% water changes. I test water parameters on a weekly basis and have never had an ammonia spike. Can scar tissue appear overnight, because this did, which is what I find confusing. Not trying to contradict you as I am definitely not an expert but none of the other Discus in the tank are sick and I have never had to use meds in the tank, only fresh, dechlorinated water.

[brewmaster15]

I understand the confusion . Scar tissue doesnt occur over night but often we miss incremental changes in our fish. The damage may have been prior to you getting the fish. Caustic chemicals like pp are used alot in this hobby.


Your fish could also have a low level fluke infection . These cause little outward sign of being present in older fish... but the flukes feeding over time does damage... ares of inflammation occur where the hooks imbed into the gills and feeding takes place.

[brewmaster15]

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...=Exposed+gills

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...=Exposed+gills

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...=Exposed+gills


https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...=Exposed+gills

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...=Exposed+gills



Are some discussions.. but if you search the forum "exposed gills" or " inflammed gills" . Its a problem that many have had.. unfortunately its hard to pin down a cause due to the nature of it.

[Red Eye.]

Gills are very sensitive in all fish if they get inflamed ...maybe this is the clue....?

Tapwater here in the UK is not good enough very high in TDS and all sorts....