Male fertility issues

[James Busby]

Hi Guys,
I have been a Discus keeper for many years and just recently decided to get into breeding. I started with about 30 juvenile fish about a year ago and have had at least 5 pairs form up. I have gotten wrigglers from every pair except my Blue Diamond pair (the male continues to eat the eggs as the female lays).

At about the 3 month mark I dealt with parasites, I treated with Metro, no success. I tried Parzi Pro (which I later found out was past its expired date) and eventually solved the issue with a salt treatment for 2 weeks. Everyone has been super healthy and actively laying eggs every 1 to 2 weeks since. However, the eggs never get fertilized. I have tried removing eggs after the male is finished to pure DI water with MB treatment and still get no hatch. Water is 6.5ph and about 90 MS. I know that my hardness is a bit high but if I go any lower I combat PH crash. Looking for anyone that may have had any similarities. My only thought is that the expired Parzi Pro may have affected my males.

Cheers.

[Discus Fever]

The expired Prazi Pro would not affect the fertility of the male so that wouldn't be the issue, at 90 MS that is not a bit high for fertilization for eggs. I use to get high hatch rates at 120 to 140. Is it a possibility that you may have 2 females that paired off? I had two females that paired one time and the exact thing happened that one would lay eggs and the other ate them. Other than than if you are positive the other one is a male then I would just take that one out and replace it with another confirmed male to see what happens.

[James Busby]

Thanks Discus Fever. This is happening to all my pairs, all which have gotten to the wriggler stage before (roughly 75% hatch rate). I suppose the blue Diamond pair could be Male/Male, but that is the least of my concern right now.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi James, so all your males don't seem to be fertilizing the eggs. Almost sounds like a water issue. I wonder if switching over to winter water has changed something. Perhaps testing time?
Pat

[Discus Fever]

Sorry didn't realize that you said all of your males have that issue.

[brewmaster15]

On the blue diamond pair .. male blue diamonds mature very slowly.. its likely its just not old enough yet.


The other issue you are having. When you say you had wigglers from all the the other pairs before... what kind of hatch rates were you getting?

Tell us more about your source water and how you.process it for your discus. I agree with Pat it sounds like a water issue. If your males were fertile a short while ago its unlikely they are not now.

[James Busby]

Water is well water. It comes out of the ground with about 22ppm and is filtered through RO ( I have for salt water). The ph is about 6. After I age it for 48 hrs with aeration i add 1/2 tblsp of baking soda which allows to me to hold about 6.5 between water changes (every 2 days, about 20%) Hatch rates were really good.

[brewmaster15]

Water is well water. It comes out of the ground with about 22ppm and is filtered through RO ( I have for salt water). The ph is about 6. After I age it for 48 hrs with aeration i add 1/2 tblsp of baking soda which allows to me to hold about 6.5 between water changes (every 2 days, about 20%) Hatch rates were really good.

If you are using baking soda at 1/2 tablespoon and only doing 20% water changes every 2 days your waters sodium levels will continually climb over time. Your conductivity is probably really high..

I would suggest you pick a pair thats laying eggs and switch to daily waterchanges with RO water. 24 hour aging is fine.Try 50% daily.No baking soda. You can add back about 10% well water for a 90-10 ratio ro water to well.

[Vanman]

With 22 ppm what are you trying to remove with RO?

[James Busby]

With 22 ppm what are you trying to remove with RO?

Just trying to get constituency. Ground water comes from only 30ft. If I use RO, I know where I'm at

[James Busby]

If you are using baking soda at 1/2 tablespoon and only doing 20% water changes every 2 days your waters sodium levels will continually climb over time. Your conductivity is probably really high..

I would suggest you pick a pair thats laying eggs and switch to daily waterchanges with RO water. 24 hour aging is fine.Try 50% daily.No baking soda. You can add back about 10% well water for a 90-10 ratio ro water to well.

TDS meter stays about 80-105 MS. Am I missing something in my testing? PH is constantly monitored as is TDS.

[brewmaster15]

I would calibrate your meter and test your parameters again but I really dont think you need to add bicarb to prevent a pH crash . 20% Water changes every two days on a breeding pair really isn't enough. You want that water pristine. I would try upping the wc and frequency.