Black Ram fry.. thanks Brian!

[Charlyc11]

If the above is true, and nobody among you has bred black to black and gotten all black--it is unlikely, odds-wise, that none of you ever chanced upon a BB to breed--so then we'd be talking black being incompletely dominant (to gold) as a likely scenario. But since gold x gold from black parents does not produce black (confirmed elsewhere on the net) gold is recessive to black.

The only rams I've ever bred were wild. I assume wild coloration is dominant to both black and gold.

This is were Liz said she had all black.

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...=1#post1375616

[LizStreithorst]

I had 2 cases of different pairs producing all black offspring.

[brewmaster15]

This thread at Fish Lore is interesting...

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfis...netics.429350/

i have to wonder if the reason Liz got some that threw all black is because of these two different strains..


Black Rams and Black Knight Rams ,The thread implies they are different and will throw different. I assume the Black rams were first and the The Black Knights came after. I have no clue what I got lol..

[gimaal]

Will be curious but it seems plausable that the B allele chromasome has developed a companion recessive lethal gene. Partially explains why By x By is 1:1 gold to black. Even with a recessive lethal on the B chromasome that would yield 1/3 yy gold and 2/3 By black (not the 50:50 most report) unless even one B allele is somewhat deleterious. As to whether or not B is recessive, has anyone thrown a black from 2 gold parents? Has anyone gotten all gold from a black x gold cross?

Has anyone noticed whether black x black broods are in general smaller #s?

To be clear, I created the 'B' and 'y' designations just for illustrative purposes for this discussion. I have no idea how a geneticist would identify the alleles in question. Also, if 'wild' (geneticists usually identify that as 'N' for normal) is indeed dominant to black, as is suggested elsewhere on the net, than the 'B' should be 'b'. I put in in caps to indicate that in its relationship to gold, it is presumably dominant, since there are no anecdotal reports of two golds producing a black even when the golds are offspring from blacks. Geneticists call this the 'hierarchy of recessives' when multiple recessive alleles can be present at one locus, there must be a hierarchy of which one is dominant over the others.

[brewmaster15]

This thread also.
https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/t...i.28666/page-3

In the fishlore thread Coralbandt mentions Marco as the one that took the black Ram to the next level..the Dark Knight... This is a quote from Marco..


Marco_2017.jpg

[brewmaster15]

as an add on.. this is exactly why forums are so great,

[LizStreithorst]

Both of mine were exceptionally large spawns and I saw no die-offs. In both cases, the parents of the pairs that produced the all black fry were the offspring from the same black/ gold pair. They were among the first spawns I got from CoralBandit. I was so new to rams at the time, that I had no idea that I'd achieved something rare.

[brewmaster15]

Well I know at least one of my pairs of blacks throws 50% blacks to 50% golds. They are spread out pretty good in this pic for counting.

20240321_185938.jpg