my planted tank 660 l

[Johanna]

Fish in quarantine is giving me trouble but at least these guys are a joy to watch. I did some much-needed plant trimming yesterday and now they look much lighter and brighter in colour. It has been a learning experience with these fish and I feel like I'm finally getting something right with this bunch. Honest comments and constructive criticism are welcome

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[brewmaster15]

Its a very pretty display tank Johanna. I can see you have put alot of work into it.

[Iminit]

Great looking tank and discus! Not a fan of angels

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Johanna, first it is a beautiful tank and the fish seem to be doing really well. Most here would recommend growing discus out in a bare bottom tank. Right now things seem to be working out so continue what you are doing
Pat

[Johanna]

Thanks everyone!

It is quite a lot of work to maintain this tank. I've had to unlearn a lot of things I thought I knew about fishkeeping and tank maintenance for discus is one of them. I didn't really know of bare bottom grow out tanks before getting these fish (I thought it was just done by big commercial breeders) since everyone I know who've had discus have kept them on sand substrate. I can say if I knew beforehand how 'high-maintenance' discus really are when they are kept properly I might not have dared to try keeping them again. I have upgraded my filtration and I think it helps a lot. I try to keep the substrate free of 'dead spots' and even though there are places where the debris gathers I always siphon those spots extra carefully.

Growth rate is something I've been wondering about... I know they can grow slower and not get so big in a planted tank but what's the potential growth I should expect? I don't know the age of my fish but I've had them since 08/23. Some of the bigger ones have clearly grown but a couple of the smaller ones, I can't see the difference so much except they've become thicker and more colourful. When I first got these fish, they ate very little for 3-4 weeks until I put them into a bare bottom qt tank and treated them with praziquantel for flukes. After that they started eating and when I put them back into the main tank, 2 pairs formed and started spawning. One of the breeding females is the smallest one (red) which is only about 10cm from tip of the nose to base of the tail. I've seen her lay eggs at least 3 times, now it's been a while since the last try. So I think she might be older than she looks and is stunted? Is the rough start in a new tank and eating poorly for 3-4 weeks enough to stop fish from growing? Or is it just natural that some start breeding when they are still young and small?

[brewmaster15]

Its really hard to guess on potential growth in the tank. Most fish I have seen grown in planted substrate tanks top out at about 5 inches . I have known one hobbyist that bought 3 inch discus and raised them in a hightech planted tank to over 6" Total length. AUTO water change and fert dosing. All computer controlled.His tank was sand and very high tech. It was understocked for Discus..maybe 5 -6 fish in I think a 180 gal tank.

Once discus females start laying eggs their growth can really taper off

From what I have seen planted tanks are still used in European circles more than barebottom tanks by hobbyists for growouts. That maybe a gross generalization on my part....Its just an impression I get.

[Iminit]

Al planted tanks are it now. I’d say a 60-40 split with planted at 60. So many now are fullly planted CO2 tanks. And many of these are beginners. I mean never had fish before beginners.

Johanna planted tanks are so much harder and so much easier for problems. I had a tank very similar to yours.C05CEFE7-894A-4FAF-850D-C390D416530D.jpg. Thing is you need to vacuum the gravel with every water change. At least 50% twice a week. Plants had no problem with this and grew great. Those discus started at 2.5 in that tank. Maintenance. That tank ran so well I started a second. All good never a sick discus. But some only grew to 4”. Still looked fine. Both my tanks were ruined with a cross contamination. All new fish need to be in qt for at least 6 weeks. Trying to medicate a planted tank is a disaster.

[Johanna]

Yours looks nice Tom, sorry about your losses due to the cross contamination ( I read that thread before, devastating!) I'm bad at unit conversions and it's difficult to measure fish anyway but they look bigger than my biggest fish at the moment. So there's probably hope of mine growing still. My fish came from a hobby breeder who keeps them in bare bottom tanks so it was probably a shock to them to be moved into a planted tank with sand substrate. I really didn't understand the significance back then. I don't use CO2 and only fertilize sparingly once a week. But yes, vacuuming every water change, I change about 30-40% every 3-4 days. Feeding 2-4 times a day. I didn't like gravel substrate even before I had discus and so far I think the sand stays quite clean. I don't dig into it very thoroughly when I vacuum except in the front corner where I have a spot of white gravel and pebbles, but occasionally stir it on purpose and there's very little dirt coming up. Most of it stays on top of the sand.

[Iminit]

Like angels I don’t like sand. It just gets into everything . Big key to my planted tanks is mylasian trumpet snails. These snail live in the substrate. Constantly moving it and eating everything. No dead spots or dead roots or leaves. Plants grow great.

[Johanna]

I have Malaysian trumpet snails in there, had a ton of them a few months ago along with some pest snails so I got 5 assassin snails. They are way too efficient, they killed all my red and white ramshorn snails in a week or two and now even the mts population has gone down so much I only ever see a few of them after feeding. I think I need to get rid of the assassins, if only I could find them...

Can I ask why you don't like angels, Tom, is it just a personal dislike or something to do with how they are with discus? I see many people saying they are not the best tank mates but so far mine haven't bothered the discus at all. They just get very fat because they're such quick eaters.

[Iminit]

They are vicious fish. They really are. Had a female Chew off all the fins from a male. And watched 2 females kill a male. Kept swimming into him on his swim bladder. Before I could get the net to get him out he couldn’t swim. Was dead within hours. They are nasty fish. Everybody says: mine aren’t they are so nice, been together for a long time and get along great. Then “I can’t believe it killed the other one or I found it dead this morn”. Thing is with discus the discus are the first target.

[Johanna]

I think it really depends on the individual fish, I've had angels kill each other before when I tried to keep 4-6 and I even tried P. eimekei because I was told they'd be less aggressive but even they killed and injured each other in a group of 9. That's why I got discus instead, hoping they'd stay chill in a bigger group. If the angels cause any trouble I will remove them but so far I like these two even with discus. they are both 5-year old males, fat and happy without females so all they ever do is spar a little with each other. They don't pay any attention at all to the discus. Hope it stays that way.

[brewmaster15]

Being old males I think you will be okay. I have had and bred many wild and domestic Angels and seen similar to Tom. I've had wild scalare literally blind each other. But I also have kept tanks of them with no issues. Much like discus its a numbers game but angels do best when theres alot of them or as in your case... a few same sex old ones.

[RickyB]

Beautiful discus and tank Johanna. Your red lotus plant is gorgeous. I concur with both Tom and Al on a discus tank with gravel. It has to be diligently maintained. I change 40% of the water twice a week and gravel clean each time. I also agree that my fish grow to a maximum of 5-6" (which is fine as far as I'm concerned).
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[Johanna]

Thank you When I was setting up this tank I knew I wanted that red lotus before I knew I wanted discus you could say it's all built around the lotus. I'm glad it seems to be thriving.

Love how the colours of your fish, background and gravel go together. I'm trying to do something similar with the red plants and red stones but so far my 'red' discus are more brown/orange than deep red... I feed them colour-enhancing foods.