Sick Discus & Need Antibiotics (PP Treatment did not work)

[32Bit_Fish]

I have a question. Do you have a HOB filter in your aging barrel/container and if so why? If so it isn't the correct way to age and aerate the water. Where and when do you had Prime?

I use two 20G tank for water storage. One has a HOB filter and another one has a sponge filter. I leave them in there because I want to use them to remove any impurity in the water (i.e., dust/dirt, etc.) I add Prime powder and API tap water conditioner into both tanks once they are filled with water.

[brewmaster15]

I stopped the HOB and removed the sponge filter prior adding PP into the tank. I did not add any other med when I started the salt treatment. I did a 75% water change the day before and did not do a water change yesterday. I haven't tested the water for anything. I will test the water for ammonia and do a water change today.

This is just an fyi.. but if you are treating a tank for a disease outbreak removing the filter during treatment is counter productive. It may save your biofilter from getting knocked back but its contaminated with the disease organism so when you put it back its not any different than adding a sick fish.

Its also really important when you have fish shedding slime coat and pathogens in the tank that you do daily large water changes. It can make a huge difference on recovery. If you think of it like this... you have half as many pathogens in that water after a 50 % wc. . Do a 75% wc and you have 25% of the original pathogens. That gives your fishes immune system a much needed break.

[32Bit_Fish]

Ammonia level at 0.5. I don't understand!!
I'm going to do a water change now.

The Ammonia level reading is actually at 2.0. I'm really confused now. 75% w/c the day before and ammonia level skyrocketed to 2.0 in 30 hours?

[brewmaster15]

Ammonia level at 0.5. I don't understand!!
I'm going to do a water change now.

Probably when you shut off the hob filter for 5 hours and removed the sponges during the pp treatment you knocked back your biofilter. You also never really said how much pp you used on the tank.. just that you did an 80% water Change after it. That means 20% of some concentration pp was still in the tank unless you used hydrogen peroxide to neutralize it .. and if you did use hydrogen peroxide it can persist a while and also may have affected whats left of your biofilter depending on how much.

Just guesses on my part.

Al

[32Bit_Fish]

Probably when you shut off the hob filter for 5 hours and removed the sponges during the pp treatment you knocked back your biofilter. You also never really said how much pp you used on the tank.. just that you did an 80% water Change after it. That means 20% of some concentration pp was still in the tank unless you used hydrogen peroxide to neutralize it .. and if you did use hydrogen peroxide it can persist a while and also may have affected whats left of your biofilter depending on how much.

Just guesses on my part.

Al

I kept adding PP to maintain the pinkish color of the water for 5 hours. I've also added hydrogen peroxide to neutralized the PP before the large water change.
Now do I still add salt into the water?

[brewmaster15]

I kept adding PP to maintain the pinkish color of the water for 5 hours. I've also added hydrogen peroxide to neutralized the PP before the large water change.
Now do I still add salt into the water?

thats one of PP's biggest flaws.. theres no way to tell how much you are using once it starts to react. If you decide to use it again theres resources out there that can tell you at least how to make a stock solution so you know exactly how much you started with. Using the "pinkish" color will bite you bad one day.

If the fish are really improving you can start removing the salt with your water with water changes.. if they are still sick or just starting to improve I would leave the salt in longer.. just keep track of how many gallons you change and add that salt back to maintain 1 tablespoon per 1 gal

[32Bit_Fish]

I just done a 80% water change and dropped the ammonia level from 2 ppm to 0.5 ppm. I added some Prime powder into the tank water and hoping it will neutralize the ammonia. I added back salt. The fish were all dark and some of them laid on one side while the ammonia level was at 2 ppm. They seems better now. I keep my fingers crossed.

[bluelagoon]

I use two 20G tank for water storage. One has a HOB filter and another one has a sponge filter. I leave them in there because I want to use them to remove any impurity in the water (i.e., dust/dirt, etc.) I add Prime powder and API tap water conditioner into both tanks once they are filled with water.

You really should just use air stones and not filters when aging water. Never put a conditioner in your aging container and let if sit they. Also, both the conditioners are doing the same things. Best just to use just Prime, but the API will do fine as well.

[bluelagoon]

Is there any measurable ammonia in your aging tanks?

[32Bit_Fish]

Is there any measurable ammonia in your aging tanks?

Would using a filter when aging the water cause any unwanted results?
Ammonia reading neither in the aged water nor in the tap water.
I added Prime to the tank water and ammonia reading still at 0.5 ppm. I am not sure how Prime works in regards to neutralizing ammonia as it advertized.

[jeep]

Keep in mind that Prime doesn't remove ammonia. It binds it and makes it non-toxic. You can get false positive readings.

[32Bit_Fish]

Keep in mind that Prime doesn't remove ammonia. It binds it and makes it non-toxic. You can get false positive readings.

So basically the test kit reads ammonia reading. But the fish don't feel there is any ammonia present in the water. Will the Prime prevent nitrification cycle if it changed the property of the ammonia? If so, the nitrification bacteria are unable to grow with the altered ammonia. Am I understanding correctly?

[jeep]

The toxic ammonia is detoxified for I think 48 hours or so. I've never had an issue cycling a tank using tap water and prime. It just takes me a few weeks because I don't use a starter bacteria. I do 40% every day or every other day and the old water in my tanks leave enough ammonia to cycle the filters but the ammonia isn't toxic to the fish. The specific science is over my head but if it isn't broke then I won't try to fix it......

What I do know is that the people who use Prime often report a trace amount of ammonia and almost everyone reports the same .05 which is most likely coming from the Chloramines in their water and has had the chlorine/ammonia bond broken...

[bluelagoon]

Would using a filter when aging the water cause any unwanted results?
Ammonia reading neither in the aged water nor in the tap water.
I added Prime to the tank water and ammonia reading still at 0.5 ppm. I am not sure how Prime works in regards to neutralizing ammonia as it advertized.

Yes, you don't want any cycling in your aging tanks, besides it's pointless, there's no live bacteria in the holding tank. Air stones are better and you wouldn't need both. The holding tank is only for the chemical change that the water goes through after the gases are aired off and is mixed with oxygen; this change is best done in the holding tank and not the main tank. You'll find that the inside of your holding tanks will get slimy as well with you method. If you're going to keep discus long term, might be best if you could obtain a bigger aging barrel. The Prime bond like mentioned only lasts for about day or two. That's why you never put it in the holding tanks and let it sit there and not use it right away. Using Prime should not effect the cycle; the ammonia bond is still there for the bacteria to use although the chlorine part will be long gone.

[32Bit_Fish]

Yes, you don't want any cycling in your aging tanks, besides it's pointless, there's no live bacteria in the holding tank. Air stones are better and you wouldn't need both. The holding tank is only for the chemical change that the water goes through after the gases are aired off and is mixed with oxygen; this change is best done in the holding tank and not the main tank. You'll find that the inside of your holding tanks will get slimy as well with you method. If you're going to keep discus long term, might be best if you could obtain a bigger aging barrel. The Prime bond like mentioned only lasts for about day or two. That's why you never put it in the holding tanks and let it sit there and not use it right away. Using Prime should not effect the cycle; the ammonia bond is still there for the bacteria to use although the chlorine part will be long gone.

So you are saying just leave an air stone in the holding tank and not to use Prime or API Tap Conditioner. Would I able to remove chloramine just using an air stone? I thought Prime is the only thing that can remove chloramine in the water.