Ich or not Ich?

[tinkon]

Folks,

I have been noticing white dots on my fish in the display tank. The discus is in the quarantine tank, so they are good. It seemed like Ich nd I am certian it came with a new fish. My water params are good. I have been dosing Hikari Ich-x. On the third day, I noticed that Corydoras stopped eating and swimming. A few of them also show tiny white dots on the back. I lost two corys so far. I stopped Ich-x for now. I ma wondering whether this is actually Ich, or a mix of couple of problems all together.
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[brewmaster15]

I think your cory death are from the ich ×.. they don't always do well with it.

I don't think.your ram has ich. Its looking alot like early stages of lymphocystis. If so the only thing that will help is time as its viral. It can take months to heal but the fish will always be a carrier.

I could be wrong.. and could be ich but if its lymphocystis it will probably start showing as clumps on the fins. I would definitely not add discus until you know. Rams seem particularly prone to it.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA181

Search " lymphocystis ram cichlids" images.


Al

[bluelagoon]

Do all or most of the rams have white spots? If so it might not be lymphocytosis and looks more like ich as you mentioned; to me by it's shape. Lymphocytosis usually looks like warts. Some fish and many scaleless fish cannot handle malachite green at full dose. If you think it might be a virus but not sure, I would continue treatment for ich. Might help your corys to turn the heat up to over 86F for a week and half the treatment dose.

[bluelagoon]

Although, I believe it is ich. There is another disease that looks more like ich than lymphocytosis that one would be epistylis.

[tinkon]

I think your cory death are from the ich ×.. they don't always do well with it.

I don't think.your ram has ich. Its looking alot like early stages of lymphocystis. If so the only thing that will help is time as its viral. It can take months to heal but the fish will always be a carrier.

I could be wrong.. and could be ich but if its lymphocystis it will probably start showing as clumps on the fins. I would definitely not add discus until you know. Rams seem particularly prone to it.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA181

Search " lymphocystis ram cichlids" images.


Al

Thanks Al. After a few water changes, corys seem to be regaining their movement. I lost three of them, though . The GBR's white spots seem to be less this morning. It does look like lymphocystis. If this is the case, would putting Discus in this tank later on be a problem?
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[brewmaster15]

Whether its Lymphocystis or Ich, at this point I would not put discus in the tank. Best thing is to try and treat as if Ich.If it clears ...great, If not then it may be Lymphocystis.. Usually it develop into big nodules on extremities.

Whats the tank Temp? Rams can easily handle 90 F , not sure about the other fish in there.

al

[tinkon]

Whether its Lymphocystis or Ich, at this point I would not put discus in the tank. Best thing is to try and treat as if Ich.If it clears ...great, If not then it may be Lymphocystis.. Usually it develop into big nodules on extremities.

Whats the tank Temp? Rams can easily handle 90 F , not sure about the other fish in there.

al

The tank temp is 83 degrees.

[tinkon]

Do all or most of the rams have white spots? If so it might not be lymphocytosis and looks more like ich as you mentioned; to me by it's shape. Lymphocytosis usually looks like warts. Some fish and many scaleless fish cannot handle malachite green at full dose. If you think it might be a virus but not sure, I would continue treatment for ich. Might help your corys to turn the heat up to over 86F for a week and half the treatment dose.

I stopped the ich-x dosing. I did water changes. The Corys are doing better. The GBR now has fewer of those white spots, it seems. There was one white spot on another GBR. But that appeared to have vanished.

[brewmaster15]

If the spots are vanishing that quickly then its not lymphocystis.. I had rams with it and it takes weeks -month to get over.
Ich makes more sense.

Please read this to understand the life cycle.

https://www.simplydiscus.com/library...rnal/ich.shtml

If those spots are disappearing without medication in the water or very high temps the next wave of ich will be worse ( see ..tomites)

The infective juveniles (tomites) will be killed while the water temperature is at 90°

[bluelagoon]

We know now that it is not lymphocytosis. That stays with them for life and is highly contagious, although the fish will live a long time with it. Ich will go away with treatment. The one you used will cure it just that you broke the cycle and stopped using it just when it was about to work. Half strength on that med is recommended for tetras, catfish and scaleless fish. When I bring ich home from the pet store I always QT in 86 or slightly higher water and this alone gets the ich. Next time you get ich with corys, clown, catfish or tetras try metronidazole, it works on flagellate type parasites like ich. water changes are part of the treatment and always better to syphon the substrate if you use it.

[brewmaster15]

Just as an FYI..

Fish actually get over it and go on as normal with absolutely no external signs. They will always be carriers though and can have outbreaks and are very infectious when that happens.. It takes about 4-8 weeks for the virus to cycle through and those lesions and nodules to clear up.


This is an excellent article...


https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA181

WHAT HAPPENS TO INFECTED FISH?
Lymphocystis is usually a self-limiting disease, meaning that, in most cases, the lesions will clear up after a few weeks in warmwater fish species (up to 6 weeks in cool or coldwater species). However, because of the unsightly growths, fish normally cannot be sold during this time

Its likely theres many fish out there in tanks that have it but its dormant.

[tinkon]

We know now that it is not lymphocytosis. That stays with them for life and is highly contagious, although the fish will live a long time with it. Ich will go away with treatment. The one you used will cure it just that you broke the cycle and stopped using it just when it was about to work. Half strength on that med is recommended for tetras, catfish and scaleless fish. When I bring ich home from the pet store I always QT in 86 or slightly higher water and this alone gets the ich. Next time you get ich with corys, clown, catfish or tetras try metronidazole, it works on flagellate type parasites like ich. water changes are part of the treatment and always better to syphon the substrate if you use it.

Thanks! I am giving them a week to get back to normal. Apart from two, the other corys started to eat and move.

[bluelagoon]

Just as an FYI..

Fish actually get over it and go on as normal with absolutely no external signs. They will always be carriers though and can have outbreaks and are very infectious when that happens.. It takes about 4-8 weeks for the virus to cycle through and those lesions and nodules to clear up.


This is an excellent article...


https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA181



Its likely theres many fish out there in tanks that have it but its dormant.

Thanks for the read. Seems everything will need to be sterilized after getting infected with this virus. I was under the understanding that once the lesions went away the fish would still have it in a dormant state much like herpes in humans. That's why I said no cure but fish will live a long life. I felt since it's dormant stressors would make it reoccur.

[Iminit]

For ick a uv steralizer removes it very fast. Uv and daily water changes removed it from my tank in 3 days.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks for the read. Seems everything will need to be sterilized after getting infected with this virus. I was under the understanding that once the lesions went away the fish would still have it in a dormant state much like herpes in humans. That's why I said no cure but fish will live a long life. I felt since it's dormant stressors would make it reoccur.

100% correct Mervin.