Cleaning Catappa leaves before using them in the tank

[Arcturus]

Hello, so my city, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, is full of Catappa trees, which would give me free leaves for tannins. However, all of residencial trees have pesticides, because of mosquitos and stuff. How should I treat the leaves before adding them to the tank for decoration and for boiling them for tannins to make sure there's nothing poisonous in them?

[Discus Fever]

I boil mine for 10 to 15 minutes and never had issues.

[jwcarlson]

Are there tanins left after boiling them that long?

[Discus Fever]

My water has never turned any color at all, but again I don't put a lot of them into any tank.

[brewmaster15]

However, all of residencial trees have pesticides

Theres alot of different kinds of pesticides.. I would not risk it unless you can find out what they use. Some target the development of larvae.. others are neurotoxins.

Theres also the question of persistence.. some last for X number of days. You really need to know what you are dealing with.

Al

[jwcarlson]

I agree with Al, I wouldn't mess around if there's mosquito spraying or something like that going on. But I would think even in most small yards your leaves would be pretty safe if you aren't applying things yourself. I collect oak leaves from my parents house for some of my tanks.

[brewmaster15]

I use oak leaves from mine as well Jacob ..

[danotaylor]

What do oak leaves add to the water chemistry fellas?

[jwcarlson]

What do oak leaves add to the water chemistry fellas?

Same as any other leaves, really. Tannins. Some fish like leaf litter, though. And shrimp absolutely love to eat leaves (or whatever grows on them when they're submerged.
And oak leaves (in my experience) don't cause the water to go cloudy or dark like some other botanicals do.

[gimaal]

I use Beech leaves also. Both American and European Beech work.

[danotaylor]

Thanks Jacob. I have never used leaves or botanicals in any of my tanks. Is there benefit to the fish from the presence of tannins or does the staining of the water just look more natural & make the fish more comfortable? I guess I'm really asking about softness/hardness effect related to water chemistry. Cheers mate

[jwcarlson]

Everytime I try to edit a post on my phone it deletes it for some reason.

With hard water it won't do much other than provide black water (if the leaves you're using will do that). For soft water it can help lower pH a bit. Nothing drastic and the effects are fairly short lived if you do even a little bit of water changing.
I am too afraid to add acid so I add leaves instead.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Jacob. I have never used leaves or botanicals in any of my tanks. Is there benefit to the fish from the presence of tannins or does the staining of the water just look more natural & make the fish more comfortable? I guess I'm really asking about softness/hardness effect related to water chemistry. Cheers mate

Danny heres a great article related to your question..

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...teresting-Read

Al

[danotaylor]

Wow, that is a great article...a little beyond me scientifically in it's scope of theorem testing, but nonetheless accessible conceptually. Who'd have thought that dissolved organic carbons would provide protection against ionoregulatory dysfunction in fishes living in ion-poor very acidic waters. Amazing!
Do you happen to know Al if blackwater extract contains DOC's?

[brewmaster15]

Wow, that is a great article...a little beyond me scientifically in it's scope of theorem testing, but nonetheless accessible conceptually. Who'd have thought that dissolved organic carbons would provide protection against ionoregulatory dysfunction in fishes living in ion-poor very acidic waters. Amazing!
Do you happen to know Al if blackwater extract contains DOC's?

Danny sounds like you got the gist of it perfect there.

Im not really sure what is in commercial black water . They all claim to have some humic acid/ tannins etc but and its a big but.. none give a concentraction or exact information. Blackwater is a complex mixture.I don't its easily duplicated but the marketing must be effective as there are more options out there now. Used to be tetra blackwater was the main one. Looks like they re-branded it a bit since years back.

Screenshot_20240323-055114_Chrome.jpg

Detail
Bioactive ingredients boost vitality and the natural colouring of the fish

Natural tannins and humic acids support fish well-being and resilience

Naturally stabilises the water's pH value

Near-natural water conditions reduce the level of fish stress

Facilitates acclimatisation, breeding and care of sensitive and valuable species of black water fish

Enhances the water quality with natural plant colloids

Iodine helps prepare fish for mating and supports spawning

Natural peat extract gives the water a slight brown tinge, which decreases the amount of light and thus also reduces algae growth

Carefully selected macro and trace elements promote plant growth

Guaranteed phosphate-free!

Unique, highly sustainable manufacturing process

Ideal for use with all freshwater fish such as discus fish, angelfish, catfish, neon fish or South American cichlids, as well as shrimps and crustaceans

I think tannin rich leaf litter like almond, oak and beech, peat, non caffienated teas like rooiboos, tannin rich drift wood are probably just as good or better for hobby made blackwater.. as for the D.O.C. levels. It would be awesome to know.