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Thread: Quarantine *questions...

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    Default Quarantine *questions...

    Hi all,
    *I know many of us have posted on this in the past, or *seen posts on it. *Heres my question though. * *What is your quaranteen procedure for new fish? *When this post is done here, I'll move it the disease section, so the more detail the better....it may help someone out in the *future...

    Heres my QT procedure....
    1. No matter who the breeder, or seller is. I isolate the fish a minimum of 6 weeks. *All equipment is dedicated *to the QT setup.
    2. When I first receive the fish *They are *dipped in methylene blue and placed in a tank that has *salt at *concentration of 1-2 tablespoons /10 gal. This helps them deal with stress.
    3. If there are any signs of bacteria or fungus, they get an increase in the salt to 1 tablespoon/ 1 gal water + furan 2 until the probelm clears.
    4. dewormed *with a tape worm specific medicine-praziquantel

    Once eating....
    5 fed *medicated gel food containing panacur * for 1week, longer if I suspect worms.
    6. fed a medicated food, with metronidazole to deal with internal protozoans

    7. externals parasite are dealt with using formalin , fluke tabs, *clout, or potassium Permanganate.

    8. *I ALWAYS *Assume Flukes...the gift that keeps on giving... currently I have found 3 weeks *of treatment with Flubendazole *or prazi to be the most effective, and safest treatment .

    at the end of 6 weeks *I take a cull from my other tanks and add it to the QT *tank This tells me if the new fish are safe *to mix with mine, and tells me if mine are safe to mix with them.

    *I'd be real interested to see what you all do and why?

    take care,
    al

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    brew,

    this is a great thread. i have a few questions about your procedure.

    do you do all steps at once or in succession.in regards to metro and panacur and flub. and also the medicated foods, do you feed them at the same time or for a specific time and then switch to the next?

    also, what is your w/c schedule during this time?

    hope you don't mind questions instead of answers

    denny

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Mine is a lot simpler.  They go into their own tank without other discus around for 3 months.  No other treatment, just observations.  Major reason is I seldom import adult fish -- just babies from other breeders.  Second reason is that I'm quite lazy.  

    Willie

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Hi Denny,
    I never mix treatments.  During the 6 weeks  time course There is plenty of time to go thru the list one at a time.  A word of caution some meds don't mix well in discus. Metronidazole and panacur(fenbendazole) , IME can kill a discus.

    I do a 30 % water change daily in all my tanks, and usually 50-75% on the week ends. The only time this changes is when a treatment  recommends something else.  For example  flukes-- I do a 50 % change daily, and redose everyother day with flubendazole for 3 weeks
    There are a  few mindsets  with quaranteens.  Mine is to try to anticipate likely probelms and deal with them  before they get into all my tanks.   I find a benefit to doing this.

    That said,  Willie's 3 month  isolation is more than enough time to see if the fish have  a probelm  like flukes, then it can be dealt with if there is something, without exposing the fish  to un necessary medicines . In a QT period of 4-6 weeks though, flukes  can remain at such low levels that  you might not realize the fish had them. Likewise  months of QT can allow you to determine if the fish are carrying other potential pathogens.  If I had the patience and space I might  try this long term  QT, but I would still treat for tape worms, and  other  internal worms as  these can remain hidden indefinetly. I would also use  a test fish  just incase.

    This is just my opinion but if you skip QT, or make it too short, you may be in for some serious problems.  many of us have done that....

    http://www.simplydiscus.com/cgi-bin/...num=1025622825

    hth,
    al

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Hi all:
    First, let me say that I am glad to be back. Things are definitely looking up again in our household. Thanks for all good wishes!
    I do a similar QT as Al (no wonder, since I have recently modified my own QT practices following some of Al's advice...). However, I do a couple of things that are different. In my case this has been for wilds as I have not yet had any others, but I think I would do the same with any, no matter the source, breeder. etc.
    1- I start with a very warm tank, 88 to 90, probably a little higher sometimes. This helps inducing feeding behavior and healing from ntravel.
    2- I use much more salt. If I see whitish haze on fish's skin (suggestive of columnaris or other like problems), salt conc. can be as high as 8 oz/10 gallons, but I usually add 1/2 that on day one, and elevate by next day. I will keep with heat/salt for no less than 1 week, and if continued into a second week, the salt conc.will be lowered until no more.
    3- If fish are eating well from the beginning, I feed normally. This is the best scenario and sometimes happens. If fish are not eating, I begin feeding on day 2 (never the day they go in the tank), and use non-polluting sinking foods, with the idea that these can be left in the tank (even if uneaten) for several hours. These foods are small whole earthworms, or chopped larger ones, colorbits, Azoo pellets; never beefheart. These foods I use in week one (while fish begin eating and while no medicines other than heat/salt is given unless specific symptoms have already been seen). As they begin to eat, I add the rest of the stuff: beefheart, bloodworms, mysis.
    4- I change more water than usual during weeks 1 and 2, no less than 50% daily, more if possible. After week2, I go to 30-50% daily. At the end of week 2, usually fish are eating ravenously and most nicks would be well in their way out. Thus, I lower temp to 87 or so.
    5- I never used panacur (or equivalent) before and recently started with some obtained from Al. I was having symptoms of what I was told may be roundworms (Capillaria and others). I believe it is working, but the healing process is slow and some scars may never fully dissapear.. I will never skip it in QT again!!!
    HTH. Cheers for now, Francisco.

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Mine are different also , I quarantine for 3-4 weeks, or life, let me explain. For example , when I recieved my first blue diamonds many moons ago, I put 30 in a 125 they get daily water changes , and heve remained in there ever since.  I try to keep 1 -3 strains in the same tank grow them out , thats where the 3 -4 weeks comes in.
    As for medication I try not to use anything. But as a preventative I use formalin, or metroniazole is series.
    Daryl

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Great thread Al,

    As a breeder bringing in any new fish there is always a risk of spreading something (cross contamination) I don't care how careful you are it can happen. 90% humidity and tanks wall to wall side by side makes it tough to iosolate fish.

    To eliminate any chance of this happening, this past April we began construction on the new "fish room" The added space (3000gallons when finished) and separate building will act as a quaranteen room when ever we decide or chose to import discus. Thus eliminating any chances of the main hatchery (breeders , future Breeders and re-sale discus) becoming contaminated.

    During this period of time live samples are sent to a diagnostic lab to be tested for anything and everything including hormones and steroids.

    All fish can be treated for Worms, Flukes,Flags, External bacteria infections etc. After 2 weeks substandard fish can be added to the tanks in the out building for added insurance before they enter the main hatchery and or young discus to the separate building.


    HTH

    Mike

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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Another

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Hey Mike...

    Looks like the car found a new home?  :'(


    Also looks like you've been very busy  

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Yea the car had to go Beth. *:'( :'( :'( *Very tough decision, but Its the right one I think. People that know me but are not into discus think I'm nuts. You sold the 67 mustang because you need fish space are you crazy?

    Mike

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Quaranteen *questions...

    Hey Mike....

    I know how hard that must have been  :'( You did the right thing  

    I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing I had that much room to be able fill up with tanks and more

    Beth

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    Default Re: Quarantine *questions...

    Thanks all,
        I was beginning to think I was the only one who quaranteened-- a scary thought in itself!   ;D

    Mike, I noticed all your heaters are kept submersed, when not in use. Have you found the seals on submersibles  are ruined if they dry out after  having been  in the water? I ask because I have seen that with visitherms ebos, and profiles. When not in use I keep them in tanks of water too.


    -al

    ps....place is looking great!

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    Default Re: Quarantine *questions...

    Al, if I'm not mistaken, i think that tank with all the heaters is actually empty!? ???

    But, you are right. I too have noticed that it seems (other than brand new) heaters dry out their seals if taken out of water for extended periods.

    Daniel

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Quarantine *questions...

    The tank is empty. But yes Al I think the seals crack when they get dry esp the older EBO's Most of the time I don't have enough heaters to go around.  ;D

    The ones I'm using in the photo are tempory the room will be heated. (Natural Gas is cheeper then Electric.) Plus I wont have to buy 40 heaters. We still have to drill tanks, run water and drain lines block the windows ect... If I dident get some tanks out there and some fish going I'd never get it done. We got it going should not be long now.  

    Mike

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    Default Re: Quarantine *questions...

    Hi guys, Great topic esp for the newbies like me.

    My totally newbie question is where do I go about optaining these medications? I am aware that my LFS has medications but they are mostly brand names and what not. I know that the chemist sells PP but what about formalin? metronidazole? 100% methylene blue? praziquantel? Usually all the stuff i have seen is pretty much mixed medications or broad spectrum stuff.

    The selection at my LFS is usually brand named stuff from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals or Aquasonic and sold as brand name medications. Their website is usually pretty lame as well and never lists ingredients. Maybe i should look harder at my LFS next time. Do i have to go to a Vet?

    Basically when you guys say metronidazole do you guys mean generally any product containing metronidazole the chemical or should I be going out to seek a bottle of pure metronidazole? If so then were do i get pure metronidazole?

    Thanks!

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