New Policy in effect immediately....

[brewmaster15]

HI all,

This forum was designed to be a place to discuss Discus , their care, diseases that afflict them, and breeding. Its a place to share our love for this fish.

It was not designed to be the better business bureau for consumers against discus breeders/retailers. If someone else wants to dump the time and money into a site like that be my guest but it will not happen here. In our opinion there is no fair way to do it.

Recently we have been inundated with complaints ...why did we pull this comment, why edit that one, why lock that one? lawsuit threats from some , reprimands and accusations from others. Heres everyones wake up call.... ENOUGH!! If a topic is edited, removed or locked there was a reason for it. Moderators and admin do not take personal pleasure out of trying to keep the peace. WE have far more important things to do. The painful truth is that these posts would not be edited in anyway whatsoever if the people posting them took the time to evaluate what they are saying, how they word it, and think about if it goes against the rules. This board is used by many, not just by the few that get moderated, often times those silent watchers IM moderators or email me and voice their complaints. Historically its always the same handful that get moderated.


We have debated how to handle breeder/seller disputes on this board. We have tried to tone down the heated arguments to just facts. We are at the point where we feel a Zero tolerance policy for anything posted in a negative fashion about a breeder is necessary.This is just an extension of our zero tolerance policy for negative posts directed at other members. We feel this is the fairest policy. Those breeders who are good will get lots of recommendations, those that are not, will have none. This is called a Positive Feedback System. As I have said before…. The only people who know exactly what transpired between a seller and buyer are those two individuals. It is not for this board and its members to decide the details of right or wrong. Its for the applicable legal systems to do so.

We do however recognize the need for some way for a discus hobbyist to find the good seller and avoid the less trustworthy ones, so we have decided on the following policy.....

Here is what is allowed....

Positive comments about a breeder.

What is not allowed... negative comments. You want to pay the bad ones back, sing the praise of the good ones. Send them the business. If you feel the need to go into details about your bad experience with the seller, have people email you for details in private….

example....
“I would not buy from breeder X --- email me for more details”


There is no fair way for us to do this other than this way. My advice to you is buy from a well known breeder that has many positive comments. Ask for pictures, ask for references from the breeder, when possible visit the breeder in person, and document everything...


Above all we want this site to be a place where everyone feels comfortable posting. We built this site on the concept of a friendly community and we firmly feel this policy is necessary to preserve those foundations. WE apologize to everyone that disagrees with this policy, but are sure you can find other venues to deal with your seller/ buyer problems.

Sincerely,
The SimplyDiscus Team

not to try to stir up any controversy at all, but would posting pics of rather undesireable fish and name the breeder they were bought from be in violation of this policy if no negative words are used in the post? Thanks in advance for the clarification...i fully support you Al.

Brad

[brewmaster15]

hi Brad,
The best thing to do is use the...

I would not buy from breeder X --- email me for more details”

then email them the pics, and your experience.

The problem with posting a pic is the photo could be a bad one, the fish could have been cared for improperly by the buyer, poor QT could have been used etc.


hope this clarifies it,
al

[fishroom]

Greetings,
Being new to this post I appreciate this new policy. I have my aquariums to get away from the real world for a little while. I realize that people are trying to help others but there is a place to draw the line. The last thing I want to do after logging onto this site is read about personal politics and negitivity. It seems as though their is enough of this in every day life.

[erikiiy]

This is your board, so everyone that want to post have to follow your rules. Instead of only telling people not to say negative things about breeder/seller, why not do the same for positive things to say.

“I would not buy from breeder X --- email me for more details”
“I would from breeder X --- email me for more details”

This would seem even more fair.

Thats just a though though, am not trying to stir trouble here.

[RandalB]

Excellent decision AL and Company. I was really getting sick of reading all the crap going back and forth. Stick to the info about raising the fish and keeping them happy.

This is not the better business bureau and should'nt have to be.

RandalB

Erikiiy SORRY, :-[


BUT I DISAGREE! :P


I did not write any books or do I have fish foods named after Me. THIS IS ALL I HAVE. I got where I am today cause of the forums.
I like Your first Ideal but plain and simple your second is for the birds. ;D

ANYWAYS 80% OF THE BIZ IS FROM NEWBIES HALF OF YOU WILL NOT BE AROUND NEXT MONTH BUT OTHERS WILL TO TAKE YOUR PLACE. WAY BAD IDEAL ON YOUR PART IMO AFTER PLEASEING SO MANY BUILDING MY REP! TO NOW NOT LET IT BE ALOUD. WELL HELL THEN WHATS THE POINT OF TRYING SO HARD TO PLEASE? I THINK I'LL JUST FEED THE DISCUS AM SELLING ONCE A DAY NOW! AND I'LL ALSO RENEW MY IMPORT LISENCE. CAN'T BEAT EM SO JOIN EM
HELL MAYBE IT WOULD BE BETTER IF I JUST LEAVE. ???
BOO HOO ALL THE WAY HOME! :'(
Your Fav
GLD! ;D

P.S Erikiiy I MEAN NO! HARM AND I'LL NEVER LEAVE HEE.HEE.HEE
p.s

[April]

Your not going anywhere mr. cary....some of us newbies stay around..and become not so newbies...and want more and more and more...of your fishies...as we keep getting nice big fat ones who breed when they get here. ;D
so get feeding and keep posting..and we will keep buying. and learning with you.

[erikiiy]

;D ;D ;D

I knew most won't agree with me on this. But thats cool though.

I am sure you sell nice fish Mr. Cary. But I called Ms. Cleo today, she told me you would not be feeding your fish as much because you gotta feed your baby the bottle.

[mikeos]

Hi Al & All & Co....

Excelent decision, we are suposed to be discussing fish, not the business practice of suppliers etc. One of the reasons I like this board so much ( apart from the great people here that is) is the lack of personal abuse and general bickering.

Moderation is GOOD as long as it does not detract from the general content or message where possible.

I do have questions though, for example the recent spate of ebo heater failures.

How would this be communicated in the future?

Are we limiting this policy to breeders only, which would seem a little biased?

Would a post allong the lines of " Bought 10 "qwerty" filters & none work after 6 months, no help at all from customer service" be fair comment, ie I am comunicating a problem or possible problem without passing personal comments or denigrating the manufacturer?

Just looking for some clarification.

Keep up the good work guys


mike

PS Freedom of speech does not mean you are free to say what you like, (unless you are prepared to face the concequences should someone take offence) there are laws for slander, defamation etc. and the internet is not exempt. If a current Australian case sets a precedent you may be liable even if the person bringing the case is in another country.

[Smokey]

Howdy:

Perhaps people do not realize just how important freedom of speech "IS" .

SPEECH.. the ability to express one's KNOWLEDGE, PERSONAL EXPIERENCE'S, AND TO ASK QUESTIONS .

Personally, I am more than happy to share what I have learned and expierenced over the many years, within this hobby.

Yes, I too have had " bad expierences" with dealers, breeders, and the buying public.

However, to be able to share my personal "expierence's", with others, I endevor to be polite and truthful. Believe me, sometimes this is very difficult.

As my grandpappy said ... Rudeness ... just showing everybody how ignorant you really are.

( on the soap-box )

Smokey

Al and all, i have to say i disagree with this new form of censorship. I feel now the moderators are to say what is negative and what is positive and delete messages from there point of view. If i buy fish and am unhappy with them i want the freedom to tell others why. In the open as to keep it fair. I understand why you have done this, but i do not support your decision and i am stepping down as a moderator.
I will support your decision and respect your forum, i just am not going to be part of censorship in any form if someone is telling the truth. I feel we all have the right to say what we feel is the truth. Even if it goes against the normal, or pouplar line of thinking. Now there is one less resourse for a buyer to expose a bad seller or one less reason for a crooked seller to be honest and sell good fish. Why should they sell good fish, they cant be held accountable on simply anymore.
You let a small handfull of people ruin a great thing, and punish the whole lot as a attempt to keep the peace.
This is your forum, and i agree you have the right to run it any way you see fit, but i will not be part of it any more.
I hope we can all still be friends, but i will not be part of this.
Respectfully, Matt

[brewmaster15]

Hi Matt,

I hope we can all still be friends, but i will not be part of this.

Its only forum my friend, I knew when we made the decision that not everyone would be happy with it. I appreciate your honesty , and am sorry to see you leave as moderator over it. Now I have to post help wanted sign! ;D j/k


just some points...

If i buy fish and am unhappy with them i want the freedom to tell others why. In the open as to keep it fair

-still can do it, just do it by email

Now there is one less resourse for a buyer to expose a bad seller or one less reason for a crooked seller to be honest and sell good fish. Why should they sell good fish, they cant be held accountable on simply anymore.

I think if someone reads a 1000 good comment s about breeder, made by fellow hobbyist that they respect, that will have more weight in determining who most will buy from. We still have a feed back system here its just different from the other forums. By supporting the good breeders you automatically take business away from the bad one.


The problem...

i just am not going to be part of censorship in any form if someone is telling the truth

How does one know if someone is telling the truth and has good intentions? how does one know that someone isn't posting under an alias to attack another breeder... we both know that has happened.

My personal opinion is a breeder that is not honest should be held accountable. But here isn't the place, the legal system is the place, or possibly on other forums.

If this forum is too be fair it must give both breeders and hobbyists the same rights. This is the only way at this time we can do this.

Take care Matt,
and don't be a stranger.
-al

[DarkDiscus]

I for one ENCOURAGE people to continue to warn others about any problems they have had with breeders, products, etc. Just using the e-mail methods above.

Word will still spread and those who don't want to hear about it won't have to. IMHO this is the best of both worlds for the members of this forum. I know that the next time I'm thinking about buying from a breeder I don't know, I will ask for some experiences and will enjoy and respect the feedback I get.

I want you all to know that in the past week I have received 42 complaints in my e-mail generated by those with issues with various threads. I KNOW there are lots of people out there who oppose censorship, but there are also a lot of people who don't care for how confrontational these things become.

The point is, we DON'T want to have to decide what's printable and what's not. I've struggled with issues of what to pull and what not to pull for a long time. And with being fair.

All of us here who moderate do it because we love the fish and we want to create a place where people are welcome to come and learn and teach others and talk about DISCUS. We don't do it because we want to be schoolyard supervisors. We don't want to be accused of taking bribes to let some posts stand and to delete others...

I'm sorry if this new policy, with which I wholeheartedly agree, upsets some of you. I'd like for everyone to be 100% satisfied and happy with this board. But I'll settle for 90%.

Thanks all,

John

PS. This is all MY opinion and not necessarily the opinion of the staff and management of Simply.

[Carol_Roberts]

This is a free country, but it is governed by countless laws, rules and regulations. These are in place to benefit the majority of the people - not all of the people, the majority of the people.

When checking references former employers are not allowed to go into great detail on the employee's past performance, but they can state "I would not rehire this person". That speaks volumes.

"I do not reccommend this breeder - please e-mail me for details . . . . " also speaks volumes.

I have also just deleted all my e-mails and IM's over these two threads.

Carol