New Policy in effect immediately....

Hey Scott, there is really 3 sides to every story....
the sellers side, the buyers side and the real truth......
HA HA Randy

However, you guys should see the email that the moderators are getting behind the scenes. Threats, mentions of lawsuits for slander and defamation of character, etc.

Sorry you have to go through that ryan, If you ask me you are not liable for any one particular indivijuals opinion, but it is not worth going through a lawsuit, I am disappointed about such emails with mob mentality.

The reason I oppose to this idea is very simple, Like cary mentioned most customers in the discus hobby are one timers, so the unscrupulous sellers count on new customers for their turn around... with lack of information they will keep pulling their con job time after time on unsuspected newcommers to the hobby. But you got to do what you got to do.

[BLUEKNIGHT]

Hi
I agree with the new policy. I can understand how these buisnesses will go at moderators to shut the site down with lawsuits and stuff just so they can rip more people and make more money.

[rfidiscus]

:-X I would like to apologize to all the good crew here on simply discus! I have not been a regular member here and when I was told by several of my customers that I better get on here and defend myself, I did. However this event that took place over 3 years ago seems like it may have served a disservice to this site! As the moderators well know (ask them) we NEVER made any threats of lawsuits or other such threats to anyone. I did not mind defending our company. I really am looking forward to being able to have some of you come and visit so you can all read the truth about RFI... I am well aware of how somepeople can become emotional (but never discus keepers) I have talked with thousands of enthusiasts over the years. There are some shady people out there and they should be exposed... However it seems that the truth is very hard to see sometimes. I really enjoy this site and am really looking forward to using it to its full extent in the future. The ask me email will have to work, but I really wish it hadn't come to this!!!! Once again my apologies.
Tom Meador

[brewmaster15]

Tom,
You have an Instant Message.

-al

[jim_shedden]

Al : I come here to learn not to be apart of a soap opera. I have no problem about the new policy as long as it doesn't take away from the information flow. I agree this forum should not be a platform to aire breeder buyer differences but on the other hand there are some rather rotten things going on that the hobbiest should be kept aware of so that he or she can make an intelligent decision...........but a decision based on fact. As I have said before if it was for people like Al & Cary & others............ I would not be in the hobby.

Keep up the excellent work. : Jim

Anand,

I agree 100% with your comments. Well stated. This new policy will not serve to warn potential victims of unscrupulous dealers. I am not talking of the small misunderstandings between breeder/importer and a customer. I am refering to out right beats.

Al,

I have received dozens of emails and PM's of thanks from 3 different countries including yourself and other moderators of this forum and 2 nasty, no class ones (both from Tom).

[brewmaster15]

Mat,
You seem to feel that this is all about you. You play a role but not the whole thing. Personally I don't care whats in your email box, I care whats in mine, Ryan and the moderators.
For the record I thanked you for your detective work and trying to handle it in a civil fashion on the 28th, when I thought the issue was over. The comment was made based on this sites former policy, and it was an encouragement to handle future threads similarly.

(No subject) on: October 28, 2002, 10:22:33 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice detective work Mat!


Thats the kind of info that is needed to separate out hearsay from fact, and done in a civil manner.


You know ... "Discus advocate for the people" might be good second income for you.


thanks,
al

often times what I want to say and do is limited by the role I play here. You know I would like nothing better than exposing a dishonest seller. Half the diseases I deal with on this forum come from those individuals.

You might want to try doing something more contructive with your time than beating a dead horse.



Tell you what,
start your own forum, and crusade all you want. I'll even post there . But it isn't happening here.

thanks for making it personal, it just illustrates why this policy is now in place, and yes, you are part of the reason.

If you want to discuss it more, IM or email me. This is getting old real fast. I am continually having it pointed out to me that we let you get away with more than anyone else. ...and they are right., not anymore though.


-al

[Paul]

Al and Ryan,

I haven't been a member but for a few months and don't post alot. I have, however, gained much for which I am extremely grateful to you guys and many other contributors. I must say that I'll miss not getting some of the feedback though. It has been because of both the positive and negative viewpoints posted here that I have been enable to make good decisions regarding who I buy fish from. It has made my intro into discus less stressful knowing that the odds are with me when sending my business to the likes of Cary, Al, Samson, Joe and Mike. I would like to think that most of us are intelligent enough to separate mail that is sent more with emotion from that which is related to actual experiences. However, I do understand your decision. What I am curious to know is whether this new policy will apply to other areas as well. What I'm referring to is the breeder who advertises the heart-shaped discus. While I wouldn't own any, there are no doubt those that would. There is apparently nothing illegal about what they do. It's more of a moral issue. Another area that comes to mind is certain product bashing. Most recently, that has been Ebo heaters. Do we restict ourselves from voicing personal viewpoints about the integrity of that company and commenting that all Ebos are crap? I would think so if I understand the new policy correctly. You could make this same argument for those that go on the forum bad-mouthing Walmart or LFSs. If the real concern here is to distance ourselves from giving anyone the appearance that this forum is either lending or not lending support to businesses, and, avoiding the email you are getting that challenges our right to express such opions, then do we expand this policy to ban ALL negative comments when it relates to someone's livelihood or income? It has got to be a tough call.

Paul

[Top_Bhoy]

I've not been a member too long either, but like many others I've been watching with dismay what has been happening over the last week or two and where this has all been heading. I haven't agreed every time a thread has been locked and have just about stopped myself on one or two occassions obout IM Al etc. on their reasons why it was locked. I stopped myself because I reasoned that unlike them, I didn't know the bigger picture behind the scenes and the abusive mails they were receiving, litigation threats etc. These guys come across as genuine guys who have the interests of discus as the focus of what everyone is here for. Guys you have my support.

I don't know if you'll now thank me or delete me, but when playing about with the address bar, I accidently (honest) came across an old thread that shows, how I think, deals with this problematic issue of good/bad breeders perfectly.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...;threadid=3892

This is not about reopening old wounds, Alexis and Mike have now put aside their differences, but the person who asked the question starting the thread, was given good opinions on Mike and at the same time Alexis was willing to give another alternate viewpoint away from the glare of public dissent. The person asking the question was then free to make their own choice. I see no problem at all in this approach. If at this point the thread had developed into a slanging match with others joining in, then the thread could be locked/edited. Am I being to simplistic in my thinking (ie we are where we are now because some preferred an alternate approach?)

Apologies for the length of this, but being a newbie, I learn a lot from many of you out there and I don't want to see this forum turn into a constant bickering room. I would hate to see this forum implode on itself - everyone is very friendly.

I hope no-one takes offence at my opinion...these are my own and not intended in any way to single anyone out for individual criticism.

I just want to learn about discus.

Regards

Top_Bhoy

Actually Al, I thought none of his was about me. I thought it was all about yet another unfair policy set up by the moral majority (which is actually minority) of this forum.

But now you want to talk about an issue that should have been handed privately, this is a prime example. Double standards do exist here, but only when it is convient for some.

What exactly do I get away with that no one else does?

Mat ;D

Tell you what,
start your own forum, and crusade all you want. I'll even post there . But it isn't happening here.

Now..Now...Now... Al, Don't loose your cool...... :P :P

[Dudley do Discus]

it all sounds MORE THEN FAIR to me.

[calgalindi]

Al,
Is there a way that you can block some one's IP address? I do think you have the right to do it.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Any of you that question Al's policy need to read this:

http://www.thedefensefund.com/

In fact, you should read it even if you agree with Al, just underscores the need to take these kinds of precautions. At the heart of this suit is several members from the Aquatic Plants Digest mailgroup being sued by relaying negative experiences they've had. This is real stuff. It cost innocent people real money.

The "If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all" is the right thing to do to reinforce good behavior/practices from hobbyist/breeders.