Lfs die-off?

[brewmaster15]

Curious what the state of the local fish stores near you is. Anyone have good ones near them? A few years ago we had a discussion where many of the small ones were closing shop. They could not compete with the chain stores and the internet. Has the die-off leveled off where you live? Iknow many small private owned local fish stores have closed in CT in the last few years. I had a good friend who lost his shop several years back. Most of what we have is petcos and petsmarts. There's a few LFS left but not many. The chains are really boring in what they carry for stock.
The small LFS often had the rare oddball stuff. I found many cool things there over the years to breed.Even used to get some decent discus many years back..something you don't see at chains. Also was a great outlet to sell home bred fry.

So what's it like near you as far as fish stores?

Al

[Ewhonest]

I have a number near me.

Discususa isn't to far, jack whatley discus isnt to far.

As far as livestock and supplies berries reef In Boca raton is awesome. Marks ark in lake worth is great. And professional fish keepers in tamarac fl is pretty good supplier. Also a tanks a lot near me and a healthy aquatics and a number of smaller okay ones that I would trust before going to a chain for live stock.

Im pretty lucky where I'm located as there are always people getting out of the hobby and selling things super cheap( even got some discus from a local guy who claimed they were Kenny discus but who knows.

[Discus-n00b]

Honestly I haven't stepped foot in the door in about 4 years maybe? Not once. It's a cross between no need to and a protest for them giving me freshwater instead of the saltwater I originally asked for that ended up nuking my SW tank a few years ago (yes partly my fault). Anyway, the majority reason is I have no need to. I will still support smaller shops, but they tend to be more web based out of houses now. So technically a new age LFS, but not a brick and mortar. Most of those have died out. It never has been that popular here in SC, but especially in Columbia. Just not enough real interest here to support it.

[Demosthenes]

I have an awesome LFS right up the street from me in Levittown, PA called The Hidden Reef. They have a huge selection of saltwater and freshwater stock, and just about everything you'd ever need in terms of equipment. They seem to be doing great business - jam packed on weekends. There's another smaller LFS about a mile away called the Fish Factory. It doesn't have quite as impressive of a showroom, but I think their primary business is mobile aquarium maintenance, and they buy & sell used equipment. So even though the two places are right near to each other, they've cornered separate parts of the market and are doing well. Having both options 5 minutes away makes me very spoiled.

I imagine it's easier for these places to survive in more population-dense areas. I can't see an LFS doing well out in the boonies.

[RobC]

In Southern California, there are still a bunch of LFS around, but I noticed that the ones that are still open are the guys that have been running their shop for 20+ years and I notice the newer owners not lasting too long. I think the older generation that are not tech-savy and prefer to go to their 'fish-guy', along with owners being able to control their cost from spiking towards an upward trend (still running old equipments, no show tank displays, no advertising) has kept my local LFS alive, but I suspect in a few years the LFS will start to slowly die-off when these owners begin to soon to retire. Buying common fish from a petco or petsmart is very expensive for questionable quality, so I do hope not all LFS disappear, I can't imagine (or hope it doesn't come down to this) where I'll start paying $100 shipping (exaggerating a bit) for $1 feeder guppies.

[Phillydubs]

Very cool topic and I have already enjoyed reading the responses and it will be cool to see this as a gathering of experiences not only in the U.S But around the world since this forum reaches many...!

I, like some of the others here have stated, fall into the category of spoiled and full of options. Being on Long Island, there seems to be a plethora of shops that range from low, middle to higher end special shops. I am close enough to Manhattan and the 5 boroughs where you can find many stores with-in a short drive. We have the big box stores in abundance, almost too many if you ask me, Petco, Petsmart, Pets this or that are all over, some on neighboring corners battling. Most of these stores as expected, are sub-par. There are a few that either have a specialty fish section run by someone who gives half a damn and they can be so so. Do I buy anything, no, but they aren't terrible. Then we have the range of the private own stores. Some are pretty darn good, others are just eh, depends on what you are after, want or need. Great in a pinch and if you need something, food, supplies, if something breaks, etc. I notice a lot more salt water based stores on Long Island, as you head towards the boroughs or Queens there are some bigger Asian populations and a few LFS that cater to those larger fresh water fish and specialty "monster" type fish. There is one in flushing queens right by citi field where the mets play that has a lot of discus, seems to bring in and sell a lot. Again, you really need to have an eye for it all, I've popped in when in the area and I have seen things I was dying to take home and things that made me say wow, they are selling this??

Again, we have to remember that at the end of the day, this is all a business, and on this level especially, these fish are bought and sold weekly and for profit and flipped to the regular hobbyist. If you walk into a store expecting to see the same level discus as a forum sponsor here, well then, you may be shocked. The same could be said for any other type of fish and the nuts that love them like we do here with discus. The arrows always look nice at this one shop, but some arrow nut may say hey those suck you should only other from Aaron Arrow online, me as a non-arrow owner wouldn't have a clue.

I feel fortunate to still have these around and get to go to them, as I am sure we will soon see, in other parts of the world these stores are few and far between. However, you can also see the stores who stick around because they are fair and honest and want people to succeed. When I walk in a store with huge mark-ups on equipment, food, meds, or even fish or bad or sick fish it makes me say, "no wonder most of these places can't survive." Let's face it, it is verrrrry hard to compete with Amazon and that sometimes makes me feel bad for these places, because amazon can buy 1,000,000 heaters and sell them for $5 less and still make bank, Phil's Phish store who can only afford to buy 20 heaters at a bigger mark up and there for needs bigger break even margin will always find it tough to sell. Unless someone just needs it or doesn't know any better.

Like most of you, I sit here and type this with a huge rubbermaid container full of spares, extras, just in case parts. Filter media, heaters, air pumps, you name it. If I need to replace a heater, it is here, in a drawer, then I order and buy a new one and it is there when I need it. Using such an approach, I rarely need to set foot in a LFS unless to browse or chit chat.

[RogueDiscus]

Our last small store that carried fresh water fish, along with salt water and birds/reptiles closed about 5 years ago. The last salt water shop closed last year. We have a local farm and pet store, but their offerings are not much different than the chains. I got my first look at decent discus from the first store I mentioned. I used to sell African cichlid fry there too. For a while I would buy stuff there just to support them. Although the long-time owner closed for health reasons, I probably eventually helped its closing by buying more and more online. Nobody in town carries discus. Maybe that's a good thing as far as LFS fish go, but that also means there isn't much interest being developed. I post on craigslist and get guys that drive 60 miles to buy fish.

[Bizarro252]

In Idaho.

We had an amazing freshwater only store, specialized in African Cichlids. That place is what got me back into the hobby. Closed up shop about 2 years ago however Always healthy fish, the guy was basically changing water all day every day he had so many tanks. He talked about not being able to find good help.

We have one other LFS I am aware of, place has about 50/50 fresh and salt. I sell fish to them sometimes. Have seen a handful of dead or beat up fish in their tanks - they do have a discus tank but they are all brown/dark

Our chain stores - some are better than others. I have seen some that actually QT their incoming fish where you cant buy them for a week or so when they come in, so thats nice.

Overall slim pickings - but I only know of one other person, personally, that keeps fish seriously so maybe the hobby isnt flourishing here.

[Disgirl]

This isn't a lfs story. But about 25 years ago I was looking at the goldfish, for my pond, at WalMart. There in one tank with some small tetras, was a lone quarter size discus. It looked healthy, was $10, so I got it. That little brown discus, with lots of turquoise striations, grew into a 5" beauty that spawned with another of my discus. I was able to raise and sell some of those fry for $25 ea. at a big fish auction in Raleigh NC. True, but very uncommon story.
Barb

[White Worm]

We just had a large LFS close in Arlington, TX. There are a few non-chain stores left in the area that will accept my home-bred angels. A few larger LFS's in Dallas. I've bought angelfish, plants, equipment and dither fish but no discus from the LFS. Not since 2005 when I joined Simply and met Kenny.

[Discus-n00b]

So here is a follow up, why can't these stores survive? Are they unwilling to change? I've always felt an LFS could survive by doing a few things. Interacting and being active on social media to promote themselves and build relationships with vendors and customers, offering quality stock that usually is not there, and having competitive prices on dry stock. Do that and you have me just about hooked. It seems like most are unwilling to do this and it baffles me. They won't use facebook/instagram/etc to post photos or videos of new stock arriving, and they don't respond to posts or reviews on their pages. Take your phone out and go live on facebook while you break open the boxes that just came in. Or after you get everything in the tank go live and tell us what you got. The quality livestock is the biggest question mark for me. We see people selling out of their house with better quality. Why? Because the LFS refuse to change and just go the traditional route of buying from the normal wholesalers instead of exploring other options or opening new pipelines. I'm no businessman, but there HAS to be some way to increase quality while either not increasing your costs or doing so only slightly. I just take their usual wholesale orders as lazy and mundane. They need to find niches and own it, be the go to experts while others sell their goldfish and tetras from wholesale. And finally their prices on dry stock. In the new Amazon marketplace world, there is no way you can find to stay competitive? I don't buy it. Do they really think a 30% markup will hold customers when they can order it from their house in their underwear and have it show up in a day for cheaper? Like I said, i'm no businessman and don't have the answers of how to do a lot of this I just find it hard to believe there is no better way to do things in this day and age. Especially when the owner of no name LFS in the middle of no where can get on Instagram and DM the managers/owners of the top 5 suppliers and have a conversation where before that guy would be filtered out by secretaries and hourly employees in a phone bank. The LFS has to evolve, no one is going to save it just because. Problem is it seems to me like they refuse to for the most part.

[RogueDiscus]

Very nice Matt. Someone should hire you to design this business!

I'll add that I think the issues you describe have a lot to do with the exposure/experience with the media of the folks who are interested.

[Davidzil]

Around NYC, we have several fish stores, I am not counting Petsmart, Petco, or Petland.
Some clean, well kept are: in Flushing we have Monster which actually has a good selection of fresh water fish, that includes a large line of discus from a couple sources in Malaysia, angels some that look on the wild side at time. In Manhattan the store is Pacific and it does stock well, mostly fresh water (including real SAE, otos, BNs, even apistos at times) and has a bunch of plants also.

[Clawhammer]

We are lucky here to have WetSpot, which I think also has a healthy online presence, which seems like a smart strategy. Everytime I am in there, they are changing water, no central filtration. Very friendly and knowledgeable staff, although they are always slammed. Great selection of plants and always well stocked.

They say all their fish are QT'd for 3 weeks offsite, but the last time I bought fish there (dwarf gouramis) they ended up with velvet (which I was able to cure with one dose of PP). They have discus, I believe Hans is their source. They get 2" discus, the longer they sit, the worse they look.

Owning a LFS seems like a tough business to me. I can't imagine too much money is made on the actual fish when all the costs are factored in. Equipment is available cheaper online or at a big box, so making a profit has to be a major challenge.

[RogueDiscus]

As a result of Eric's posts, I've done business with WetSpot and have been very happy. I almost mentioned their online presence myself. I've offered my fish to them, got no response, but if they're comfortable dealing with Hans, you can't complain too much. I haven't actually been aggressive either.