Play Sand on bottom of tank?

[Ralph]

That does it! My next tank is definately going to have sand. I am thinking about something with only a few plants, a lot of driftwood, and the sand substrate. Not exactly a discus biotope but closer.

[Ivan]

Well guys we converted someone to a sand substrate.

[ChloroPhil]

Sand is a great substrate for getting the "natural look" and it's a cinch to keep clean on the surface. However, I've run into some serious problems with anaerobic patches using a fine grain pool filter sand with plants. Any degradable material that was more than 3/4 of an inch under the surface decayed and createdhuge dead patches.

When I replaced my sand the bottom three inches was completely black and smelled of sulfur. Just something to think about. If you can get sand with a larger grain size~ 2-3mm you should do fine. Just make sure that there is some way for oxygen to reach the lower layers. Plant roots are perfect for this..

[Ralph]

The substrate that I am considering now would be 1/2" of potting soil, then 1/2" of Flourite, and then covering that with 1/2" or more of sand. Right now I have the same thing except the top layer is gravel. It did some bubbling for the first three weeks or so (not sulphurous) and has been fine since.
One of the books I read said the same thing you did, that the plant roots exhale O2 into the substrate, making anaerobic action less likely. My tank is almost all swords which I've heard form almost a mat of roots eventually.

[ChloroPhil]

Good luck with your substrate mixture, let us know how it goes. I tried a similar mix but failed miserably. Lesson learned: NEVER use clay kitty litter as a substrate unless you're looking to do a Mississippi or Mekong River Delta (mud) biotope.

Regarding roots and O2... I've seen some evidence of roots exhaling when above the substrate but I don't think it's as big a contributor to substrate oxygenation/circulation as the roots pulling water down through the substrate. With a tank full of established swords and/or crypts and their massive root systems the amount of water pulled through the substrate can be considerable.

Many people much more expert than I are of the opinion that a well established root system provides more circulation and an under substrate heating coil system that many use. Never used a heating coil system myself I can't corroborate that, but I can say that in past tanks I've noticed a substantially healtier substrate and plant growth with a lot of heavy root feeders.

[chavez720]

Ralph - I am currently using the substrate that you are considering. Using NC Red clay (soil I got from a construction site) 1" on Bottom, mixed with peat, flourite and sand. This is then capped with about 1" of sand and aquarium gravel. These have been my most successful tank to date.

No problems with the substrate releasing hydrogen sufide. I believe this to be due to roots transporting oxygen into the substrate.

One drawback to this set-up is releasing the soil into the water column. Whenever I want to rearrange things there is no way to prevent the soil from going into the water.

Have several tanks with pool filter sand and laterite mix. These seem to run extremely lean on nutritents. They usually require more additions of ferts into the water column compared to the soil substrates. The balance is harder to guage in these tanks. In my opinion it has to do with the CEC (cation exchange capacity) of the substrate (Much lower than soil/clay). Less nutrients available to the roots. Not much room for nutrient imbalances in these tanks which leads to a headache (ALAGE PLAGUE!!)

Nice to see some North Carolinians in here especially from Charlotte!!!

[Ralph]

I was really nervous about the idea of putting potting soil in my fish tank! I just imagined it turning into a putrid mess with dead fish floating on the surface. I wouldn't do it any other way now, except the covering layer will be sand instead of gravel which is mainly for looks. My sword plants have done great and I am now using about 1/3 of the recommended dose of liquid fertilizers.
It is definately a tank that you want to get right from the start, like you said, plants don't relocate very well. I can plant new ones or remove unestablished plants, but you can't take out well rooted plants without a mess.
What did the clay look like that you got from the construction site? I know that Flourite is just baked clay. Did you do anything to the clay before you put it in the tank?

[chavez720]

If you lived in NC you would know exactly what I am talking about. It is not the topsoil but the soil right underneath it. It is a rust color - orange. Too much organic material in top soil to use in a tank.

Just sterilize it in the oven at 250°F for about 1/2 hour. Then add into tank.

[Mike_T]

I use silica sand in my showtank. It is very clean and can be easily kept clean. Check out a paint shop or body shop, they sell it for around $7.00 for a 100 lb bag. When you initially put the sand in, be aware that it will raise your hardness a little at first. I would put it in prior to cycling the tank.

Mike T 8)

[Serpae]

Hiya

Living out in the middle of the stick's, not a lot of plant specialty products are available, so a lot of stuff has to be ordered in, taking some time to arrive, so in my impatience I have used Kitty Litter, and whitish colour Play Pit Sand in a lot of my planted tanks, with great results.

The kitty litter is made entirely of clay, with red and greyish colour 5 - 6mm grade chunks. Rinsed, as it actually has some dried organic plant matter in it, which leads me to beleive that it is 100% natural and not treated. The chunks do not dissolve, and once washed, it looks like aquarium gravel.

I have soaked a small amount in boiling hot water, and mashed it with a potato masher to see if it would turn into a brown soupy mess, but no. After several days of countless mashing, microwaving to re-boil the water, it only broke up into smaller pieces and some discolouration, but boy, didn't it take some work to do.

Back to the sand, this is placed over the kitty litter to a reasonable thickness (hint: leave about an inch of water in the bottom of the tank, put in kitty litter, and then put in sand. The sand sinks in, and there are no air pockets).

Fertiliser spikes are inserted right down to the bottom of the tank with the aid of a syringe with the end cut of, making sure that there is no air in the syringe part. This is overcome by inserting the spike inside the syringe underneath the water.

The surface of the sand is kept clean with the aid of bottom dwelling fish, with Corydorus adolfi being my favourite as they are IMHO the best looking coryies available, unfortunately here in Oz, they are really pricey wholesaleing for about AU $25 each, making them worthy to be kept with Discus in a show tank. There continual foreging in the top few mm of sand keep the muk and gunk in suspension, which is picked up by the filter's.

The sand, and Kitty litter, have not altered my water chemistry, nor killed any fish. HTH.

[Ralph]

I've always wondered where Oz was.
It sounds like you don't vacuum? I would sure like that as an option. How many cories do you have in what size tank?
Does the liter add any fertilizing to the plants, being clay, I would think yes? But you still add fertilizing sticks?
I sure like low maintenance solutions, they make aquariums an option for more people. Not everyone has two hours per day to devote to pet care.

[Serpae]

Hiya, sorry for taking so long to reply. I make use of on average about 8 cories to a 4 foot standard width x length tank.

A lot of time is saved by not having to vac the top of the substrate, but you will find that the filters need to be cleaned more frequently, and you still need to do regular routine w/c's.

I used the clay kitty litter after researching substrate's for bottom feeder's (plants). Apparantly it is a valuable source of iron, and some micro nutrients. I use fert spikes as an additional fertilizer, as not much is leached back into the actual water, so I hope that all my plants are adequetly nourished without a lot of excess nutrients floating around for algae to use.

Appropriately sized swords can be forced to flower by using a spike for Flowering plants (as well as a slightly longer lighting period), as these fertiliser's are higher in Pottasium (K), and Phosphorus (P). Using these in an undisturbed substrate you will not get a dreaded algae bloom.

With weekly w/c in a planted tank, a lot of nutrients are lost, particularly nitrate's and nitrogen. By using fertiliser's (spikes) designed for house plants, these nutrients are supplied directly to the roots without dangerouse levels building up in the tank.

This has worked for me, but may not work for other's due to personal influences such as stocking levels, lighting, water parameters and other factors, you just have to trial and error to find out what works in your own tanks.

By the way, as yet I have not done much research on the benefits of anaerobic bacteria, but I recently saw an advert for a anaerobic filter by Dupla I think it was. As yet the product run down has eluded me but here is the site where I came across it. http://www.adelaideaquariums.com.au/main.html

Azoo also has a fertiliser product out containing substrate bacteria. This can be found without to much difficulty at the same site.

Maybe we could get together and create a posting on how anaerobic bacteria can be utilised and the pro's and con's that it may have.

[Ralph]

I agree completely about the differences between individual tanks, there is just too much going on in a planted tank for someone to insist that something is correct for all tanks. I think that one of the real values of this site is reading the discussions and problem solving that people do to get their tanks to work correctly.

I like your idea about a discussion on substrates and bacterial activity in the substrate, I'll start it up this weekend unless you want to.

[Serpae]

That is why Simply is so different to other forums, advice offered is just that, "advice", not, "YOU WILL" as I am right type of attitude.

When people collectively offer an "option" you have the choice on what to try. When people get on together like here for example, more varied and quality "advice' is offered as there are more people to help.

Not being dictated to makes a hell of a difference on how an e-society or group function. It is called ' group dynamics'.

It would be great if you can start up a posting on substrate and influencing bacteria as I wouldn't know where to start.

I'm still trying to find the advert for the anaerobic filter, lol.