Back To The Wild

[daninthesand]

with too much inbreeding you get very strange results sometimes...like this flounder discus...

[daninthesand]

or worse!!!

[Lynn]

look out!
Dan's outta control with photoshop!

Round head...the wild strains will add back to the gene pool, and I think its important to preserve them as disctinct species too. Someday they may not be there!

[Denny]

dan,

can i get one from you to cross to my butterfly discus?

[Denny]

and one to pair with my flowerhorn/ discus cross too please

denny

[jim_shedden]

Lyn : I agree ..............
Dan : You have too much time on your hands.........didn't I see on of those on aquabid?

Jim

[korbi_doc]

ROTFLMAO DAN, THAT IS TOO MUCH!!!! the color is great, just what I want in my new wilds, hahahahahaahaha!
But,prefer the original without the additives!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah!!! you all have too much time on your hands, & I'm still
LMAOROTF..................Dottie : : :

[limige]

dan, is the second one a cross with a largemouth bass?
lol

[daninthesand]

yes, too much time on my hands. thats why I have time for discus.

In case anyone is wondering where i got the photo from it is attached below unretouched. It can be found on the "below water" website, the original source for this photo.

http://www.belowwater.com/fish/discus.html

Apparently this is a WILD CAUGHT fish. The mother of a breeding WILD pair. So there is something to be said for wilds maybe after all.......

Daniel

[paulmat]

Dan

NOW THATS A HECKLE CROSS

Paul

Wow! I am feeling some heat now. My post was intended for the serious breeders not the photoshop expert. Any fool can manipulate and breed an image on his pc.
Everyone wants to think that our modern day discus are grossly inbred. I challenge you all to prove it. I want to see it in writing. I want to see your fish traced back to the original cross.
If you don't see where I am going with this, you'll never will.

I have too much respect for this forum so I'll stop here to prevent Ole Brew from another headache.

Peace and
Good Luck.

[daninthesand]

[quote author=Round_Head link=board=1;threadid=5159;start=15#53814 date=1039334573]
Wow! I am feeling some heat now. My post was intended for the serious breeders not the photoshop expert. Any fool can manipulate and breed an image on his pc.
Everyone wants to think that our modern day discus are grossly inbred. I challenge you all to prove it. I want to see it in writing. I want to see your fish traced back to the original cross.
If you don't see where I am going with this, you'll never will.

I have too much respect for this forum so I'll stop here to prevent Ole Brew from another headache.

Peace and
Good Luck.
[/quote]

Peace and good luck?!

I guess i fail to see the peace offering in that post. Foolish me.

roundhead?!?!? What gives? No sense of humor or what? Your questions were responded to directly. No need for personal attacks.


[quote author=daninthesand link=board=1;threadid=5159;start=0#53715 date=1039302578]

I too love the look of a qualtiy wild discus. And I also love the domestics.
[/quote]

Where in that statement do I suggest I don't like domestic discus?

Any serious discus breeder would take it for granted that too much interbreeding is potentially harmful. Its basic genetics. Plain and simple. There is no need to prove it here. Read ANY genetic textbook or take ANY university level genetics course and you will get your proof. Do a little reading and you will get your proof. And a little more reading of the previous posts and you will see that people might have opinions on that as well.

By doing a little photoshop manipulation I was TRYING to illustrate my point. A desireable looking fish (my opinion of course, but in my tanks, its really the only opinion that matters.) that would come about by breeding a domestic discus with a heckel to achieve the prominent 5th stress bar. You got any domestic heckels lying around? If you do I'll buy 10 please.

I guess I got a little carried away by TRYING to illustrate potential problems with inbreeding. Just having a little fun, but addressing your questions just the same. Oh well I tried. The last picture I posed above, in case maybe you missed it, is quite an awesome looking fish. IMO. And guess what...its WILD...bred by good ole' mother nature. Not bad for a foolish old broad.

[quote author=daninthesand link=board=1;threadid=5159;start=0#53715 date=1039302578]

I hope you see my point.

[/quote]

Nope. Missed it by a mile.... ???

Daniel

While your post may have been intended for serious breeders, the question showed that you are not one yourself. Ask any breeder how they developed a yellow fish, and how they attempt to fix the strain and they'll discuss the various methods of inbreeding employed. The question is naive in my opinion. Are you suggesting that inbreeding is not a technique used by breeders? Or are you accepting that it's fact but demanding proof?

[jim_shedden]

OOOOCH David...............I like them all but I must admit some of the "new Caught" wilds are absolutely outstanding. I have an empty 50 Gallon right now and it will house wild discus in it someday.............preferably Tefe Greens. Don't get me wrong , I really enjoy the new varieties but there is something about a wild that tells me that this planet isn't too far gone ...yet.

Jim

The comparisons listed... wolf & dog etc. make me wonder... What exactly is so genetically different between a tank-bred bright yellow Discus and a wild Discus? If not for inbreeding to create the yellow Discus wouldn't they be pretty much the same fish? So I'm confused by the question, either introducing wild Discus is unnecessary because the genetic makeup of wild & domestic fish hasn't changed as a result of captivity or it makes sense because the makeup has changed. And since wild Discus are inherently strong fish since they are typically adults and have been able to fend for themself then introducing those genes into your breeding program must make some sense. I don't have to hear the reasons from the big-name breeders, I just need to know that they are bringing in wilds on their own for the very reasons stated in this thread. I've yet to hear a large-scale breeder say that inbreeding is not a problem with some strains of Discus or that introducing wild Discus into your breding is bad or unnecessary.

Dave

Dave