Automatic Water Change System

[BlueTurquoise]

It's me again, still investimagating stuff ;D

I have a new question regarding automatically dosing my storage tank with water ager. Basically I need a timed system to dose exact amounts at a certain time. Any ideas? Is there a machine that is out on the market that will do this? Or does anyone have any ideas how I can rig up something DIY style?

Sorry if there has already been a discussion on thsi topic beforehand...

Chong

[Ralph]

Investimawhatwho?
I'm not sure what you mean by a water ager. The people that I know that put additives in their water storage, do it one time when they refill it.
Please enlightenmagate me.

[BlueTurquoise]

Investimagate as in finding out stuff you know... ;D

Water ager, you know anti-chlorine, chloromine remover... the problem is I have chloromines in my tap water so I need to use water conditioner to remove them. No trace element additive needed for me, just got to neutralize the chloromines...

Chong

OK now I am investimgating you investimagation.. A bit edumacation for me as well?

Curious, why do you need to time it? Am I missing something Chong?

Julz

[BlueTurquoise]

Sorry for not trying to explain but perhaps it might be better if I did then maybe you'd have advice for me.

Ok here is my plan for auto water change system. From the main tank at a certain time and for a certain time, a solenoid vavle will open along a siphon tube which will allow the filled tube to suck out water into a drain or garden. When it reaches certain level (timed inveral, at mounted and a safe height inside the tank to prevent total tank drainage) it stops.

Then a pump which is also on a timer in a storage container starts up and begins to pump aged, heated water from the storage container into the main tank. As the tank empties itself I can use a float valve system (like that detailed by daninthesand, which is designed to be used in a toilet) will open when the water level goes bellow a certain hieght, the storage container starts to refill itself automatically (as he says the flow rate of the float valve can be adjusted so that the mixing of new and aged water is negligeable.

This is the time (or after the storage container is full) i will need to dose the water with chloromine neutralizing conditioner and leave it to be heated and bubbled overnight ready for the next waterchange cycle.

Of course I would put in an overflow in the main tank and an overflow on the storage unit just in case. That is my grand scheme for automated water change. I have drawn lots of diagrams and stuff here on paper, i wish i could show you. What do you think?

I have solved nearly every problem with this system so far by searching already done solutions, and have edumacated myself lots on things such as to drill an overflow pipe into the top of the tank etc. All i need now is to figure out how to do this automated water conditioner dosage thingy. I foudn some really good leads from the link that DM posted in the DIY section. basically an air driven system with a reservior and a couple of one way check valves. ounds good to me (else I can buy a Dupla $AU700 LCD panel unit that can do it for me, NOT!)

I just wanted to investimagate further to see if there were any other cool systems or advice that I have not seen before. Else I will probably put together the air driven system this weekend.

Basically I told the wife that if I could get this thing going I'd not have to worry so much about water changes and not have to cart dripping buckets over our carpet every night. She is behind me 100% hehehe

Thanks for the interest Julz, could always count on you baby!
Chong ;D

All I have to say is OH MY GOODNESS.

Sounds like quite the plan. I will sit back a bit now and learn.... Gotta Get Randal's attention, he will love this one....

Damn its good to see you back, Chong...

Julz

[BlueTurquoise]

hehe thatnks Julz! it's good to be back. Yes no rest for the wicked, straight into a new fishy project for me lol. Well here is the plan! i drew it up on MS pain so bare with me but I will try to explain it:

Basically the solenoid timer on the main tank goes off first and starts to siphon water out. Then once this is done the sump pump in the storage container gets going and pumps the aged water into the main tank. When the storage water level drops below the float valve it gets going and starts to top up the storage container with new water. The rate of the float valve is slow so the mixing of new + old water is nelgeable (I hope!). Then the sump pump turns off after a certain time. The storage container then gets filled up (slowly over time, maybe 1 or 2 hours) and that is when the water ager dosage kicks in and deposits 20-40mls or whatever into the storage tank. The heater/air stone is constantly running (I will mount the heater right at the bottom to avoid it runninf dry I guess).

The overflows are in there in case of problems and I will try to get digital timers with battery backup so they are more accurate (down the the minute? or seconds I don't know yet).

So what do you think???
Chong

[BlueTurquoise]

Will it work???

[BlueTurquoise]

Here is the plan for the auto dosage system. Be warned this plan is plagurized and I didn't invent it!

Basically it works by air pumping water ager through the airline hoses to the storage tank. The air pump will have to work on a timer too so it turns on at the right time.

What do you think?

[BlueTurquoise]

So my questions then are

1) on the solenoid end (syphon part) will this work? is there another solution to this that is easier? I ahave never used solenoid before so I am nto sure how to hook it up, not even sure if I need to convert 240V to 12V or something... maybe you can advice me with product links...

2) is it necessary to dose the de-chlorimines when the storage tank is full or should I just do it at anytime?

3) is there a way to design the water ager dosage so that I can mount it above the storage tank and not have to worry about the siphon emptying the water ager tank? see if I mount with the feeder hose above the unit it will not siphon. But for convenience I want to mount the whole auto doser (heh) above the storage container... how can I do this and ensure that it doesn't just continually siphon everything out of the water ager reservior tank?

4) how do I drill holes in tanks??? I need to drill a hole for the overflow. How big is big enough?

erm... i will have more questions when I think of them...

[RandalB]

Ok Chong...
This is not necessarily my area of expertise, but Julz asked me to jump in...


In answer to your questions,

1)The only problem I see with the Siphon/solenoid idea is exactly timing the drain cycle. If the water level breaks the siphon before the timer cuts off, You'll have to reestablish it every time. Have you considered a pump rather than a siphon?A delivery demand pump with a solenoid and a level controller would probably work better If you can get them there.

2)If you want to dose the tank when it's full, you might want to have some kind of water movement to make sure the dosage spreads (I don't know how often you'll be changing water) as far as treating the water as it enters, an IV bottle filled with your Chloramine treatment might be an idea. Use a medical drip adjuster to sinc it to the water flow. This depends on how often you plan on changing water. If it is once per day, you can adjust for the additive to drip in over a 24 hour period and use a powerhead to mix the water. You can often find refillable IV bottles at science surplus stores.

3)See the above IV idea. You can mount a hook above the tank and have it gravity feed. Saves a few $$. If you want to be complex, I know there are several dosing pumps on the market that are completely digital and will do the drip rates for you. I prefer to homebrew it though as I am a Cheap SOB.

4) The overflow should at least be as big as the feed port on the float valve. If you think that is not enough, a 2" drainline should be enough for most residental water pressure.

Hope this helps, again this is not my speciality, maybe a plumber on the board can help out?

RandalB

[BlueTurquoise]

Randal,

thanks for the reply! I am very grateful and have been waiting eagerly!

The mixing part is not too difficult as I will have an airstone going all the time to stir and agitate the water. Is this enough or do I need a powerhead?

i see what you mean by breaking the siphon... maybe a pump is a better idea but I was hoping for the el cheapo method cuase I am also one cheapo SOB, LOL Actually I was planning to have the siphon intake at lower levels, say half way so that I can time it just well enough to get no more than half way. Having it not go all the way to the bottom is only a failsafe thing I guess.

But yes you are right, if the siphon is broken then things will get ugly! more investimagation on that area...

Is a 2" hole too big??? wow that is a huge hole... I am scared that if I drill that, I will need a new tank cause it will crack! is there any other non drilling solutions? will any of the overflow boxes dodats do the trick? Drilling sounds difficult, did I mention that I am also one lazy SOB too hehe...

Well as you can see it aint a perfect plan, I guess it will always be a work in progress. Wife loves the idea hehe

Chong

[Jason]

chong,

low-tech dosing use an i.v. bag drip type set-up.

high-tec use a peristalic dosing pump.

hth!

[Ralph]

There might be a problem with the main set up. I don't want to sound negative though, it is a very impressive system.
When the pump in the storage tanks starts pumping, almost right away the the float valve will open and tap water will start entering the storage tank. The pump will then be putting at least some tap water directly into your aquarium. I was trying to think of some kind of delay on the float valve but it might be better to go to a valve with a timer. Maybe I am missing something though.
No ideas on the dechlorinator. The problem is getting the exact number of drips. If the dechlorinator is diluted though, it becomes a different set up.
If none of this makes sense, it's because I just woke up.

I've been there & done that. I don't have chloramine in my water so I didn't have to worry about adding any Prime. And I just overflowed the tanks that I changed water in so I didn't worry about siphoning water first. But I was rarely, if ever, out of the house at the time all of this water changing took place. It would freak me out to thing that 100's of gallons of water were draining & refilling while I was gone so I did it first thing in the morning so I was always there. What I'm getting at is start simpler and complicate it as your need dictates. Start by just tossing in some Prime sometime during the day before the next water change. If it is common that you forget or are out for more than a day at a time then try to automate that, otherwise it's a lot of work for little gain. And it sounds like you're going from using buckets to fully automated. It would make more sense to start with a holding tank and a pump and drain & fill manually for awhile. Then start automating each step. Drill the hole(s) in the tank(s) for overflow, overflow the tanks for water changes, then automate the siphoning of the tank prior to refilling, etc.

In the end you'll probably find that you're gaining little going from a simple system to a fully automated system. For instance if you just drilled your tanks like Mike Wells' system where you just open or turn a pipe and it empties... go eat your breakfast... then turn on a pump and refill and you're done the benefits of automating all of that are minimal. And don't forget you still have to siphon the tank bottom daily and the best time to do that is while you're doing a water change.

Dave