Altum problems ... spinning fish

[JeffreyRichard]

I have experienced 2 health problems with my F1 altums over the past several weeks ... first occurred 2 weeks ago and the 2nd occurred today.

Both times the affected fish was spinning in the current of the tank. No other signs of health problems (no hemorrhaging, no bloat, no skinniness (word?)). I took the 1st out of the tank and put it in it's own tank, assuming it was an isolated incident and it was a gonner. It died after 1.5 weeks. But now with the 2nd incident ... ?

There are no other issues in the tank ...

I don't have water parameters other than temp (82-84). 70 gallon ... Aquaclear 110 filter, plants, 13 angels (altums and scalare), several apistos, 3 plecos. As I said, no other issues noted.

Fish are feed FD Bloodworms, krill pellets, and various flakes 1-2x daily. Water changes several times a week.

The spinning is kinda circular ... big loops from the bottom to the top of the tank. Almost like swimbladder, but no bloat and no laying on the surface or the bottom.

Ideas?

[plecocicho]

Could be a sign of dreaded cryptobia.

[judy]

sounds like it. second hand pat has a loooong thread where fish showed simialr behaviour. It did not end well.

[Darrell Ward]

Not good. Expect to lose a few.

[TNT77]

Treatment:

A variety of treatments are presently being studied. To date, the most successful intervention is an intramuscular injection of isometamidium chloride (1.0 mg/kg). This treatment in clinical trials has had a 100% survival rate (compared with a 100% mortality rate in untreated fish).

Its worth a try if it spreads to breeding pairs.

[jimg]

you need to get all water parameters. could be water related, could be parasites, bacterial etc

[Maria Ashton]

post number 49, page 4 http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthrea ... scus/page4

Discus mama had some wilds who whirled. It not good I am sorry to say.

[Second Hand Pat]

sounds like it. second hand pat has a loooong thread where fish showed simialr behaviour. It did not end well.

Judy, it was actually a mixed bag. Lost some but saved most. Andrew Soh was kind enough to recommend a treatment plan (for discus) which worked but retreatment was necessary. Now these are angels so no clue whether Andrew's treatment would help, hinder or even apply.

[jimg]

do they seem to be blind and bumping into things? Is it possible they swim in circles/current because they cannot see?
I have some that I could swear are blind

[Jennie]

Think I'm gonna stave off wild anythings for awhile...too much whirling and other issues going on lately..

[Melissa]

Tell me about it!

Sorry for your troubles Jeffrey.

Wish I could recommend something that would help you, but if it is anything like cryptobia it's my understanding there is no 'cure' for it. Only management... Here is a quote from a pretty good article from The University Of Florida to explain why:


"Currently, there is no effective treatment for Cryptobia. Part of the difficulty may be that the parasite seems to have an intracellular stage. Parasites are occasionally seen in phagocytic cells, called macrophages, which are part of the immune system and are supposed to destroy foreign protein by engulfing it. Cryptobia seems to be able to live within these cells rather than being destroyed by them. This can make it difficult to treat Cryptobia because most drugs are not able to penetrate the cell wall of a macrophage. Some Florida farms have used a sulfa drug (sulfadimethoxine) that seems to help control mortalities in some cases, but has not eliminated the parasite. "

In any case, whirling is a pretty bad sign. You need to test your water to eliminate the possibility there are water quality issues going on contributing to symptoms. In my experience with whirling fish, it is possible for them to recover from an 'episode' and appear seemingly healthy and normal for a while before it happens again. I had a group of 9 red Alenquers that went 2 months between episodes. I eventually began losing them all to the symptoms... Whrling around the tank until they would exhaust themselves and die. I euthanized the ones that didn't die by themselves and am starting over now- after sterilizing EVERYTHNG like nobodies business LOL

Without sacrificing and sending an affected fish in to be studied, I doubt you can really figure out what's going on with your fish. Based on information in the article on cryptobia referenced above, it is possible for fish to live seemingly healthy for a long time with it... It's a good read, but here is the link:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077