certified breeders

Nate,
All the LFS in Albany, Eugene, Springfield, Salem and the ones I have seen in Portland say "No Guarantee On Discus"
To me it makes sense to get to know the breeder and his/her practices before buying fish. Pictures and recommendations are hard to beat.
But as I said earlier he is a grown up and can do whatever he likes.

IMO
Miles

The LFS I owned (we just closed our doors for the final time today) gave no guaranatee on Discus either. Think about it, why would we? They have the ability to choose the fish so that isn't an issue. When I buy fish sight-unseen from a breeder they are guaranteed to be alive when I get them. So I guaranteed the same thing in the LFS, and we never ever sold any dead Discus. We also never had a Discus die in the bag on the way home to the customer's house. And after that point the risk is that of the customer's. If he/she can't land the fish properly, has unsuitable tank conditions, doesn't quarantine them then anything can happen.

Dave

[Monette]

That's a pretty broad brush to be painting all LFS' with

Nate...I did not paint all LFS....nor have I used a broad brush.

What I said was when we see Discus in LFS

...*ALL* of the tanks where the Discus are housed have a little sign in the corner..."NO GUARANTEE ON DISCUS"

Miles, not sure where you are from but we, too, are in Oregon. And I was referring to LFS that we have been in, around the Portland area. There are a couple of very nice LFS and we buy other fish from...but when it comes to discus, we like a little more background on them (more than a LFS worker seems to be able to give...yes we have asked ??'s)

Even if the fish we buy have been imported, we like to know that and see all the other fish they were imported with. Along with knowing when they came in, how they are eating, etc.

If anyone has a LFS they know and trust...that's great. If it works for you that is great. Do what you are comfortable with.

Just another opinion

[daninthesand]

Dave.

Did you give guarantees on fish other than discus? If so, how does the customers' viewing, selecting, purchasing, transporting, tank conditions, or quarantine procedures differ for those fish that do have a guarantee?

If no fish had a guarantee, then there is no point to my post

[mench]

I really don't think we are "blasting" anyone here.We are just giving our opinions on our local fish stores and two of the breeders that we have dealt with...most of the fish stores around me won't take discus because they are too hard to keep,that is thier words not mine..Others do get discus in and buy from local breeders,but be sure to buy them when they come in cuz a week later they don't look too good.
Enough said on the subject...do all the research and decide for your self..they will be your fish...

Mench

OK.... I started to read this thread thinking... "Oh no, NOT again"....

then headed to the kitchen for a sandwhich...

Came back (sandwhich in hand) and read some more...

Then again... thinking "Hmmm why have we not seen warnings of this in 51?"

then I got thirsty and went for a beer.

Came back (beer in hand) and finally landed on page 3...

My conclusion, if you care? (Beer still full) I truely think this IS:

Mark's Official Breeder Certification Thread

Is that not what you desired, sir?.

Cya... need to finish that beer b4 it gets too warm.... :P

BTW... I do not need to mention my experience with Cary, Mike, Joe or the rest. Its all here for ya hun!..... Enjoy your fishies!.... I sure do!...

[brewmaster15]

Nate,
The probelm here is...

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a good fish from an LFS'. As long as quarentining procedures are used where is the problem?

mark has never bought or owned discus. How many times does someone post a picture of discus here and on other sites that they thought was good discus but wasn't? When I first got into discus I didn't a thing about what to buy, when you start its at the bottom of the learning curve.

My purpose here is not to slam anyone, or LFS. Facts are most LFS don't even chose to carry discus because of the difficulties involved. That in itself say alot. Then think about the specialist side of things... How many species does a LFS have to learn about? How many does a breeder of Discus? Who would probably know more about Discus?

If someone is new to discus I can only advise them what I feel is their best chance at getting good healthy fish. From all the experiences I have seen posted and from working at a LFS and seeing the wholesalers many LFS get discus from , that best chance is with a known breeder, that has made many happy customers.

If someone has a LFS near them and they can get them great healthy discus... then by all means buy them there. But you should at least know where or who that shop gets them from.

All the quaranteen in the world, won't help a fish that contracted TB in a LFS (recent study showed as many as 30% of LFS fish have this uncurable,contagious, and fatal disease.) Nor will it help a fish that was fed too little and is now stunted or has a curved spine. It won;t help a fish that was fed hormones because the LFSs like brightly colored fish , even at a small size. It won't help you grow that fish, and breed it and get fish that look like their parents. Only a fish gotten from a a breeder that takes pride in what they do can tell you if the fish is an f1, f2, otherwise, you could get a fish that could already be so inbred it does nothing for you.

If you ask the people on this board where they would feel safest in purchase fish, the majority would say a breeder, why? because most of us didn't know any better when we started and had bad experiences with LFS Discus. Run a poll if you want to check that out.

Healthy Discus can live for many years , maybe the solution for Mark is be patient, find someone near him , and visit that breeder.

Lfs are great estblishments use them for what they are good at, Lfs good at discus are the exception not the rule.


jmo,
al

Dan,

Yes we did give guarantees on other fish. Most of the factors you mentioned don't differ with other fish. But the conditions required by Discus do differ, as is the skill required to keep Discus. The cost of the Discus also differs. But that's not really the point of my post, nor this thread. I was merely pointing out that the guarantee given by a breeder that ships the fish to you is about the same as no guarantee at a LFS on a Discus. The fish is alive in your tank the day it arrives, beyond that is your responsibility.

Dave

[daninthesand]

Ok Dave.

Point noted.

Daniel

[TnMark]

I would love to go to a breeder and pick out fish. That would make me feel more comfortable, even though I am not an expert. My problem is the closest breeder is about a 5 hour drive, Rocky Mountain Discus. When I privately emailed members about them I was advised not to use them.
I would love to go to Cleveland (Mike Wells) or Michigan (Great Lakes) but they are about 600 miles away.

[Tyler]

There are plenty of other breeders out there who may be closer to you....
Jeff Doty
Chad Bertoni
Jeff (discusfarm)
and believe me, there are more than that.
Just ask around, and you could get lucky and find somewhere close to visit.

Tyler

[Jeff]

Mark,

Its worth the wait untill you can check out a breeder you like. The odds are against you with the lfs. In southern California there are approx. 25,000,000 people within driving distance of me. That equals out to a few hundred pet stores. Out of these there are less than 10 that I would buy discus from. Granted I have not visited every store, but since I sell to many I have been in a lot of them. Most of the stores I sell to I wouldn't buy from either after they mix my stock into their tanks. Its luck of the draw. Feel lucky?

[ronrca]

Hi Mark,
I understand your concern as I as well feel uncomfortable spending a lot of money and getting burned (I dont have much to start with anyways)! As suggested already, buying from a local breeder is the best and, like yourself, there are not many local breeders close enough to me either. I have been on this site since August 2002 and I have met people that do live relatively close to me like Smokey in Canmore, darcy in lethbridge, Dave_C in Winnipeg, April in Vancouver plus more, all within 12 hours drive (Winnipeg may be cutting it close). All recommend Cary, Mike, Jeff and Chad !

What Im trying to say is try to find locals that you can talk to. See what their opinions are. You can then make your own conclusions. The most convincing thing for me is an address (not a PO number), phone number and pics of the hatchery!

Just wanted to put my 2 bits in, in support of Cary, Mike, Jeff and Chad which imo from all the responses from others who bought their discus (Dave, April, etc.) are better than certified!

HTH!

[brewmaster15]

Mark,
Not that there is anything wrong with the other breeders reccomended here. but...

For what its worth to you I rate Rocky Mountain Discus as one of the best Discus breeders out there. Few out there have as many years in it as Al Johnson has. I have bought repeatedly from him , and will continue to do. I wish I lived half as close as you do to him. I'd be raiding his stock everyweekend. You should give him a call and talk to him. 5 hours drive would be well worth it IMO. Al Johnson is one class act!

Much of my breeding stock has come from him over the years.




hth,
al

[Monette]

Warm beer...Yuck!... Don't let that happen Julz...

Nice fish Al....

I have heard nice things about Rocky MTN also... I have not ordered fom them personally but do know of someone who orders from them and they are completely pleased!