Questions from a new guy

[HarryW13]

Carol,
I'm not sure I understand what you said about my water. You say I lose calcium and magnesium by my well water going through a water softern, but I thought Discus like soft water? How does the loss of theses minerals and the addition of salt in my water effect my fish? Is my water OK to beed in?

And also, you said you liked your Aqua-clear filter. Now I have heard is is a great mechanical filter, but is does not do much in the way of being a bio-filter. Do you not need much of a bio-filter in your Discus tank because of the frequent water changes?

[BlueTurquoise]

Silicon with sand: That is a pretty permanent solution. I think it would be one heck of a job to remove it later if possible at all!

I used to have bare bottom with silk plastic plants, the type that has a weighted bottom so that it sits at the bottom nicely. I used it when I first got my discus to "acclimate" them to a bare tank. The silk leaves got stained brown from some gunk that could only be removed by hard scrubbing, the branches of the plants caught and tangled fish poo and other bits of gunk that required a daily heavy shake under strong running tap water and even then it was still dirty.

On Saturday morning after a heavy feeding on Friday of brine shrimp, tetra bits and black worms (after which I did a good water change and scrub, basically before bed the tank was spotless). I woke up to the filthiest sight that I have seen in a long time! Errk! They basically pooped their guts out and the bottom of the tank was totally littered with poo and other unrecognisable “artefacts” that lay stuck to the bottom of the tank! I immediately sucked out the poop and did a 20% change. Later that night, no more than 8 hours later, I did another large water change and noticed yet more poo and artefacts at the bottom!

Now this is a bare bottom tank, I feed them enough food that by the time I return to the tank about 10 mins later, everything is eaten up. I never feed them more food when there is still food left (usually in the form of live black worms). I would like to know, no wait challenge, anyone that can say that they can keep a gravelled tank clean! I am having a hard time keeping 3 x 4.5 inch discus in a 55gal bare bottom clean on a regular 3-4 times per day feeding routine!

It's downright back breaking, but then again I am abit anal about feces...

PS. maybe my fish are just pigs? hmmm

Chong

[BlueTurquoise]

Harry,

AC are totally biological filtration the way that Carol and many others use them, myself included. We all put in prefilter sponges on the intake to prefent large chunks getting into the filter, and only have sponges as filtration material. The prefilter sponge is rinsed every day.

We are doing the opposite of what you are suggesting, Mechanical filtration is not as important as you do alot of water changes to remvoe the large gunk in the water. The AC are there to "polish" the water of ammonia and nitrites in between water changes biologically, relying on bacteria living in the sponge media to eat it up by having the ACs circulate the entire tank's water capacity through the filter several times every hour.

HTH!
Chong

[HarryW13]

Chong,
What type of sponge media are you using in the AC?
And by the way I'd like to thank everyone for there helpfull info. I think you all have talked me into keeping my tank BB.
Harry

[BlueTurquoise]

Harry,

Just AC standard sponges. When you buy a AC filter it comes with one sponge and one carbon bag as media. Just skip putting in the carbon bag (save it for when you want to remove medication) and buy an extra AC sponge filter and have 2 sponges in the filter as media. They also tell you to use Amrid but skip that too.

For filter ends, Pascale and I (shortly) will be using Fluval blue sponges as a prefilter, they come in a tube shape and perfect for AC500 after you plug the bottom up with extra foam. Carol makes her own prefilter sponges, and Randal uses a brand of prefilter sponges called Filter Max (which look really good). Basically any small pore sponge will do if you can secure it to the end of the intake of the AC. Large pore (or sponge that has larger holes) can trap gunk in the sponge).

Remember that you need to cycle the AQ first...

HTH
Chong

[Ryan]

Hi Harry,

AquaClear power filters are an amazing bio-filter! When you buy an AquaClear, they come with one large foam sponge and a bag of carbon. Take the carbon out--you only need it if you're removing meds from your tank.

Buy an additional foam sponge just like the one that comes with the filter. They sell them seperately (look for the right model #, if your AC is a 500, get a replacement sponge that's also 500).

In the back of the AquaClear, just stack the sponges on top of one another. I have heard of people squeezing three of them in, but I can only fit two comfortably. The two sponges will give you a HUGE surface area for beneficial bacteria, which is what breaks down ammonia and nitrites into nitrate (which is, of course, what bio-filtration is)...

Also, put a pre-filter over the intake of your AquaClear lift tube to keep large debris out of the filter. If you use a pre-filter, you will not have to do thorough filter cleanings as often. Without the pre-filter, large chunks of food and waste can get sucked up into the AC where they sit and decompose, making it necessary to frequently take the filter apart and clean it. There's a thread in the Beginners section regarding pre-filters, just scroll through and look for it (it may be on page 2 or 3)...

Ryan

[Ryan]

LOL Chong, we were replying at the same time. Funny how our messages were pretty much identical. Harry, here is the pre-filter thread:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...;threadid=6229

I, too, use the Filter-Max brand pre-filters (these are the same people who make Hydro sponge filters) and I love mine. I posted a picture of it on the link above. Also, it's easy to make homemade pre-filters.

Ryan

[BlueTurquoise]

LOL Ryan



Chong

[fossil]

-Hey Tyler, I believe you have me confused with someone else I have never been to see Mike or see his setup. Although I would like to go.

-Carol first of all I don't want you to get mad at me because you have been the most helpful person on this forum for me. I really appreciate all the help and I hope you will continue to help me on my questions. BUTTTTTT....... You said...."Putting burning leaves in a barrel contains the leaves (like kitty litter) but does nothing to allieviate the air pollution. " I'm not really sure that will work? What is the substrate you are comparing the garvel to? The leaves are the waste and uneaten food but what is the gravel? The barrel is the tank, correct? Say if you put a top on the top of the barrel with small holes. That could act as the gravel. The top slowly lets the air polution out rather then no top which will just release the air polution more quickly. The gravel (or top) releases the polution more slowly verses the barebottom where the polution is being realeased all the time. There for making the gravel tank cleaner. Sure you will get every little speck out of the bare bottom but in return the discus will be more susceptible to diseases. They are not exposed to the germs which could hurt your discus in the long run. Im gunna say the discus in a BB are the "Indians" and that the discus in the gravel tank are the Europeans. The Indians were never exposed to diseases there for a great number of them caught the disease when the Europeans came over. The Europeans were already exposed to the germs making them less likley to die from the diseases. Just one new fish that was in a gravel bottom before you bought him could carry diseases (even if quarantined) The fish that have been in a BB their whole life was not exposed to these grems there for ending up like the indians. Just a few thoughts I picked up on when in global class the other day. We are always going to have our own oppions, that will never change. These are mine and hope NONE of you will be offened by them because by all means I did not intend to do so. My discus look great IMO better then a lot of BB discus. I wish I could show some pics but I don't have a dig. cam and my scanner freezs up when I try to scan something. Hopefully I'll get a cam for my next b-day. Well "peace out" as they say.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Fossil:
Lol, The leaves aren't the waste the smoke from the burning leaves is in my analogy. The barrel can't contain the smoke it disperses throughout the area causing air pollution. I was likening air pollution to water pollution. Disolved smoke in air to disolved proteins in water.

Hi Harry:
I also use two sponges in the aqua clear. The others answered your question about biological filtration. Discus like soft water, but not salty water. Others who post here have had problems using water from whole house water softeners. Some use RO units and then add back calcium and magnesium and someting else. . . . that I can't think of right now :P

[BlueTurquoise]

Fossil,

Perhaps Carol's analogy was not perfect (as it is with all anaologies.

In any case, if you are willing to put in the effort to look after a gravelled and planted tank then go for it and all the best of luck.

This topic of bare bottom vs gravelled/planted can go back and forward all year, as it is really up to personal preferences etc. The two sides of the coin consists of people telling others that they have good results from BB tanks, and others saying that gravelled/planted look heaps better. Listen to everyone and make up your own mind, It is your own perogative after all.

Signing out,
Chong