Tapeworm experience by Brewmaster15

[brewmaster15]

Hi everyone,
I recently bought enough praziquantel to treat all my fish in the fishroom. I have not done this before, except when I first get the fish in or if they are sick. I was interested to see how many of my fish had tapeworms or other worms they would pass. 12-24 hours latter out of about 30 adults and many more fry I was surprised to only have one adult female pass worms. This one surprised me because she's passed 6 large tape worms so far, and is still passing them. Though I know this single case doesn't prove anything--- I've always believed tape worms would take away from spawning activity, this female spawns weekly! Interestingly I got her less than a year ago and she did not pass any worms in quaranteen with treatment
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These are the directions that came with my Praziquantel....
Prazi.... an effective and safe med for the treatment of gill and body flukes, tape worms, and other cestodes and tremotodes in ornamental aquarium fish. May be effeective against capillaria when administered in the food.
Bath.... 100mg/10 gal (1/4 tsp/20 gal)
allow meds to remain in the tank for 48 hours. Mechanical filter may be running- no carbon or other chemical media. On the third day begin daily water changes of 10 to 30% for the next 5 days. On the 7th day repeat the entire process. On day 14 a third treatment may begin. This would be prudent for tanks with gravel substrate , and no undergravel filter..
Fast bath.... 1/2 tsp  /10 gal prazi to a small medical tank. Insert affected fish for 2.5 hours
Food.... Mix 1/2 tsp prazi to 1/4lb food. Typically used is beefheart or beefliver ground in a blender and frozen for future use. 2-3 feedings every other day should be sufficient.
prep in water , it doesn't go in well, shake or mix vigorously. In acetone , mix 3 parts acetone to one part prazi, then pour chalky substance over the tank water... be careful as it too much acetone will cause oxygen depletion....use only pure acetone.

Most people seem to use warm water , I used it with the Acetone and had no probelm. I used just enough acetone to make it slushy, then add water to the container. If you use acetone - don't mix it in plastic only glass!!! OH, I also did long term baths (whole tank treatments) 2x for bare glass, and 3x for planted tank.

[Bill_P.]

Brew

how the heck do you come up with all these Awesome Illistrated Discus Post

[Carol_Roberts]

Like a lot of us here I'd been told for years that discus didn't get tape worms.

After seeing Al's pictures and reading testimony from many of the regulars I bought some prazi and used it on my discus. I waited the twelve hours and then sat in front of the tanks waiting for the worm show to begin.

My discus are from three different sources and I did not see a single worm of any kind.  While we know for a fact that discus DO get tape worms, they may not be that common.  (I wish TeddyJ could see your pictures, Al.)
Carol  *H*  

[brewmaster15]

Carol,
* Because of their  lifecycle I would have though it *not possible myself, and in the past even expressed that belief. *Out of all my fish, only one had them. I think it is probably not that *common, but until we find the intermediate *host, its hard to say...

I'm guessing here, but I *think some day that host will be found *out to be a common *copepod *in our tanks.

take care,
al

Bill- I/m addicted *to alot of *things besides fish and homebrew... photography and photoshop are part of my *job, and my passion ;D

[daninthesand]

Hi every one. I'm new to this forum. Ryan S told me about it on GLD forum. Thanks Ryan!

I know this post is a little old, but I only just read it now.

Regarding tapeworms....This may not apply to discus  exactly but I'll tell you what I know about tapeworms. A tapeworm is a parasite. Duh! A successful parasite is one that can live in it's host without killing it or otherwise harming it. When a parasite finds its way into the wrong host, and kills it, well then the parasite has done a dumb thing right?! The parasite dies. This is just basic biology. So it's no surprise that Al's discus was able to thrive and breed despite harboring  the tapeworm. This might just by an example of a well suited parasite/host relationship.

If you know your fish have tapeworms then so be it, get rid of them with treatment, but who knows what lives inside our fish?As long as the fish is healthy be happy right!

Just my opinion.

Dan

[DarkDiscus]

Dan,

Welcome to the discus lover's home away from home.  It's always great to meet new discus folks.

As far as parasites go - what you say is true to a point.  The problem is that parasites weaken the fish.  This makes them more likely to contract diseases or less able to fight off infection.  Tapeworms don't follow the logic of - If I kill my host, I die.  They just consume as much as they can and have offspring to do the same thing.  They are very good at this and consequently your fish may get very infested and very weak.

Plus they can cause obstructions and other problems.

Al is the expert here, but I'd say the fish are MUCH better off without the worms!

John

[brewmaster15]

Hi Dan ,
 Welcome to the board!  

In some ways what you are saying is true...  IN NATURE. A tank is a closed, Unnatural  environment  though where parasites can quickly reach  numbers that can harm, or kill a  fish. I can tell you from experience that  Gill flukes a very successful parasite  can easily cause the death of many  discus Fry. Hexamita, a protozoan  parasite  along with Capillaria( a nematodal parasite) are  probably  responsible  for more discus deaths than  any other factor except water  quality in a hobbyist tank(IMO).
  Tape worms by their life cycle usuallly will not cause a  direct  death, but they open the fish to infection at the site of where their mouths attach. They compete with the fish for nutrients and take up "space" decreasing the useable Digestive area( Imagine how much space  6  each 6-11 inch worms  would take  up in the intestines of a medium size discus.
  One other note to consider as well. ... The   parasite-host  relationship you mentioned really doesn't deal  with Individuals. Its based  on populations.  In many cases the host is  killed either directly  or indirectly(infections, nutritional, etc.). But the relationship is deemed a successful  one  from the parasites point of view as  long as the death of the host  comes slow enough to allow for the parasite to reproduce sufficiently  to allow its species to survive. In the case of the tape worm, that would  be long enough  for the worm to reproduce  by its  Gravid -egg filled Proglottids  breaking off and being passed with feces out for another host to inadvertently ingest and perpetuate the life cycle.
 Hope this helps ,
al

[daninthesand]

Al and John.

Helps a great deal! I certainly would prefer to live without a tapeworm hanging around in my gut. I get weak just thinking about it eeeew :P

I really like this forum. I hope to learn a lot here! So far I've learned a great deal! Thanks everyone!

Hi Al,

I find it interesting that your discus passed no tapeworms during your initial Q period, but passed one now. Curious though as to: do you feed blackworms?

Mat  ;D

[brewmaster15]

Hi Mat,
I found it amazing too, but that was the first time I ever used prazi-- a  drug which is specific for tapeworms. Since then I have  added it my QT  procedure.  

  As for the blackworms  ...you know I feed them.

If you remember the first time I reported this experience was  Jims forum, in march...
http://pub5.ezboard.com/fhobbyfrm7.s...icID=992.topic

what is really amazing to me  is out of all my fish, Only one fish  had tape worms. I have over 100 discus, with at least 30-50 adults at any given time. Incidentally I feed  blackworms  every other day to the adults and daily  to the fry under 2 inches.  Since that time in march I have treated   the fish 2  additional times with prazi and  still no  tape worms.

 since that  fish was  relatively new to me and was bought as a  pair, and always kept separate I can only guess it had them  before I got  them.  Ironically its tank mate , never  had one either.  I bought this pair  from a local  breeder, and don't believe he fed anything live.

  Sorry this doesn't fit  your theory Mat, but keep trying

take care,
al

[Discusgeo]

Boy Al, you and your tapeworms. Darn ugliest thing I ever saw. Thank goodness mine never had them. It's almost time for me to do the Prazi thing again. I will wait until the summer is over.
George

[Ocastro]

Well this is what i found in my Male, i'm start using Metronizadole or something like that, any suggestions?

[Ocastro]

Another pic......

[Ocastro]

And the size....

Wow..nice pic..that's gotta itch. And to think..no hands to reach around and scratch it.