Heckel Hair Cut!!!!

[brewmaster15]

Hi John,
Francisco would know that answer better than me, but by my best guess, ... 2years or older.

-al

will the spines at the front of the fin grow back, al??? that's the only thing i might've done different--not trim that part, and just let the rest of the fin grow back in even with them...

[brewmaster15]

Hi David,
The first 4 spines were not trimmed. The next 2 are. This area had scar tissue thats not too evident in the original pic, but you can see it here. I am hoping that all grow back, the spines will just take longer as they are not as vascular. I was temped to cut them below the lowest point of scar tissue, but truthfuly, its tough to see until you actually are cutting, and I felt it was too much.

I think all the spines will regenerate over time., except the one or two here... where I show the scar tissue..

hth,
al

[Francisco_Borrero]

I am very happily surprized at the extent and speed of recovery ! Wonder has occurred in just 6 short days. I probably should have done it long ago, but didn't have the guts. I don't mind admitting it. Thanks Al.

I have no specific information about age, as this is a wild fish. My guess is that 2+ years may be accurate. The fish was with me for about 1 year, and when he came it looked like a young, not quite fully grown adult. His companion (seen in part in one of the pictures is still ragged, and was a tad smaller but probably similar age).

Keep the progression coming !!

Cheers, Francisco.

[Surfghost63]

Hi Al & Francisco !

Thank you both for sharing this great experiment (IMO) with all of us, it's amazing the growth of the fins in just 6 days

Talking about cruelty, I think it's not at all here, the guys who mutilate fish in order to have extra benefit$$$$ are cruel (remember the Bat Blue Diamond and the Butterflies ? :'( ) Scientists who try to heal fish are not JMHO, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, it's not my intention

Take Care,

Bill

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Al,

Great experiment indeed. Its amazing to see the new fin regeneration and how fast its regenerating.

I'm curious to see the new fin regeneration when it reaches points where there were scar tissue previously. I was told human skin has some sort of memory and I wonder if this is same case with fishes.

Keep us updated.


Cheerio,

Chi.

[discuskrib]

Brew:
you said this was a bit of a science experiment so i am assuming you took measurements of the fin length before and after cutting. i'd be interested in knowing how much was cut off and at what rate it has/is growing back if you have taken any measurements since then.

would you say that the tissue is growing back at an equal rate at all the spines, growing faster near the tail or closer to the head?

[brewmaster15]

Hi Discuskrib,
I really did not want to stress the fish out any longer. The goal here was mostly to remove the damage area and document the regrowth. Measuring each ray would take a lot of time, so I did not "measure" before I cut, but I can fill in those blanks after by using the eye size as a standard reference, measure the pixels across. Then meaure the fins, and repeat at different time points. Its a techique I use alot in the lab for another kind of analysis.
The fins are definitely growing back faster towards the tail, as One might guess... because the tissue is softer there... less bone, so easier to grow.

hth,
al

God work Al . Very innovative. Why wouldn't I think of that? I've seen fins grew back completely after a bad accident. You can basically get a good comparision from the before and after pic. Leave the exact measurement to the research sicentist. IMHO eye measurment is good enough for hobbyist. That may give April an idea for her own discus grooming solon.
Jimmy.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jimmy,
If you know the resolution of the picture, and measure in pixels. You can be pretty accurate. You can also convert the pixels to conventional measurements easily enough..

I have another pet project I am working on, might as well spill the beans here. You know all the hype about discus with large eyes, and eye to body ratio? This technic is an excellent way to scientifically come up with hard numbers for this very subjective indicator...eye size. You can actually measure the eyes area in pixels. Eye distance to front of fish , and measure the entire area of the fish. You can measure the degree of roundness as well. All in a stressfree way for the fish.

Heres a simplified measurement.....

[fishfarm]

Great thread Al, I've seen a similar experiment on Pong's website, I'll try and find the tread and give a link, he did a much more extreme trimming and the fish recovered and was beautiful. The heckel looks so much better already! I wonder of the folks who have problems with this procedure eat meat? Ken

[fishfarm]

http://home.nc.rr.com/hammerklavier/...generation.htm
Hi, Here is link to another timming, It was on Peter Lee's site on the Discus plague. (sorry Pong! My mistake) It's amazing the recover on this fish!!! Check it out. Ken

[jim_shedden]

Ken : that was excellent.
thanks
Jim

[brewmaster15]

well,
I had strong feelings that this heckel would regenerate fins with no problem. Peters experiment definetly strengthens that conviction. Thank you Ken
-al

[Ryan]

Peter Lee also had an article regarding fin regeneration in an aquarist magazine, not sure which one? FAMA maybe? or TFH? The article explained how to trim fins in order for them to grow back properly. I assume the information on his website was probably similar to what was written in the article.

Ryan