Heckel Hair Cut!!!!

Thanks Ken. Very informative. That's the way a good forum suppose to be. Learning opportunity for the olds and the youngs. Congratualtions to all Moderators. You all did a good job. Thanks
The next queston is why didn't they regrow without cutting? What stimulate the growth?
Jimmy.

[Francisco_Borrero]

That was a very good link Ken, thank you.
I had never seen that link, but I did read the article by Peter Lee in FAMA last year, which included some of the same pictures, and the brief description of the original source of fin damage.
The article is very good and describes a method for anesthetizing the fish (actually compares 2 methods).
Ken, Peter Lee's handle is Phog, so that's probably what made you think of Pong, which is very close.

I must say I continue to find amazing the speed of recovery.

JimmyL, I don't know the answer to THE question as you put it (why it wouldn't regenerate by itself, what stimulates growth after surgery), but my interpretation thus far has been that once scar tissue is formed, surface cells (epidermis) at either side of a cut will not join unless they are removed, thus leaving dermal cells (at least one layer below) exposed, and these may join. Of course I also ask myself, well if I understand it so well, why didn't I do it before ? I don't know why. Al did it and so far I am very happy and grateful.

Cheers, Francisco.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jimmy and Francisco,
My guess to this....

why it wouldn't regenerate by itself, what stimulates growth after surgery),

is because of the scar tissue, and I would guess the main component may be neurological damage by the fin rot/scar tissue. I think this because I worked for several years in diabetes, and Diabetics suffer from loss of wound healing ability in their late stages . This is due to The nerve damage caused by the ailment.

Nerves are very important in any wound healing, and often are very involved in tissue repair. its just a guess, but one that I think has some merit.

Hth,
al

[jeep]

It's been almost 2 weeks. Any updates???

yeah, how 'bout some "where are they now" pics??

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
24 hours in a day.... why couldn't they round it up to 30 hours! ;D...

Been a little busy lately... Birthday bashes and Discus helping , but I was planning on taking and posting some this weekend..If i can... I'll take some tonight.

I will say that the heckle is doing well, and if I can get a good shot, you'll see that even the first 3 spines have started to regenerate.

thanks,
al

[discuskrib]

can't wait to see them!

[Mr.Trips]

Woooo Hooooo

[Ivan]

Hey Al, your a brave bugger! lol. He looks great so far, anymore pics. I don't really know how far behind I am with htis thread. I only found it last night. So how long ago did you do this?
I think the regrowth is just amazing!! Great thread!!!!!!!

[brewmaster15]

okay-- heres the update... Day 26, at this point most of the fins have grown back except the first few spines. These have just begun to go from the blunt flat spines after the cut to pointed projections. I am pretty sure at this point that all the spines will regenerate except for the ones I did not cut. After all the growth has occurred I may go back and and selectively "fix" the spines That I did not touch originally. If you recall, I left these because I thought they may have been too damaged... after seeing what has grown so far..I no longer feel that way.

[brewmaster15]

To recap...

[SLY]

the front part of the dorsal fin will not grow back IMO.

[brewmaster15]

Some macros of the spines in question...

[brewmaster15]

A spine is basically a bone, similar to that in your arms or legs. The way these bones grow is there is a series of cells that reproduce and and then slowly become calcified towards the center of the bone.

when there is damage to the bone, like a break, there are repair mechanisms that are engaged, and eventual Collagen becomes bone. Its a complicated procedure... and one I am not that familar with but to me... There is little difference between a fracture separating two bones or a scissors , healing mechanisms should be triggered. ..whether that leads to additional spine growth or not..I don't know, but at this point there is tissue restructuring going on.

There may also be a critical role that is played by the age of the fish.

Time will tell.

al

ps... good read on bone growth and repair..
http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food2/UID06E/uid06e0u.htm

[Mr.Trips]

Brew, Very impressive, thanks for the update! It is amazing what kind of bad stuff a discus can go thru, and be able to bounce back! And they say the Discus is not a hardy fish! HA!

Keep us updated!