Long winded post about poor water and not able to clear it up.

[foggy]

Hello Discus Lovers,
A small bit of info first, I have a 75 gal tank in my front room, where I am all day,
I have very crappie water. Very mineral heavy and hard. I won’t use ph adjuster it’s just to much to much to try and move the ph so I know they won’t breed.

I am going through a financial diet here, I would like to have a RO really I would,
But I wanted a planted tank with my Discus, so I did have sutbtrait to help promote growth. Not very good luck with that. I’m sure I killed some Discus with the fertilizer. I had white worms no matter how often I vacuumed the tank and changed the water. Now I have two Discus in my 75 gal tank.
I use Prime in every bucket,

I clean it more than I think I should have to. So I try to make the water clear and feed them Discus Essential Figuring I want healthy Discus. The water is kind of foggy but maybe its lacking something so I put it in the tank OMG.

I now have no subtrait and Two Discus I got rid of the white worm. The other day I added some algae fix it cleared up so nice I could not stop looking at it, I also used water clarifier that’s when it was clear.
Next thing I know I have a bloom going on again, it was so dense I couldn’t see if the heater was on or not. That was something also I changed from Prime to another water conditioner, I thought the Prime was making my water bad,
Damn near killed my baby blue, I think he’s going to be alright, boy he was way dark, eye was covered over and looked white and cloudy white splotches around his front hiding and not eating, yea I swear I was going to a community tank.
He was trying to jump out of the tank, he would like having a fit, I just kept thinking he wanted out of that water to many chems in it.
So I did two .5 tank water changes in two days I had to the small water changes was not clearing up the green.
Now I have foggy or cloudy water I did a 10gal water change and vacuum today.

Rather than add any more stuff to the water. Lots of water changes in the last week like every day. I feel like I’m a slave to my hobby, Tonight the water is white but, cloudy and making a white coating on ever thing.
I have two tank filters with a total of three bio wheels. A round air stone in the middle from a small pump. Also a power head on one of those big black sponges that sets in the tank. I have air going through it along with the water that draws in the spurge. I thought maybe I had to much filtering so I stopped one of the tank filters, I decided to put the filter back on.
I don’t use charcoal just blue and white batting.

So I have a test kit with the tubes what do I need to know? It always comes back low to nothing cause of the prime.
The area I live in has this new state of the art water purifying only one like it.
I think their has to be something missing. I know the white is from the prime somehow.
It does look like its foggy in there I can see the waives of white going in the water.

The only time I drink this water is in my coffee.
I don’t live very far from a mine, its called Kennecott open face mining. So the water is high in ppm.
Ok I’m done with this expiation. I wanted my lights so bad. Then to find out the blue lights hurts the fish eyes.

I just don’t think its going to cycle through
I have read plenty about the situation such as
Tropical Aquariums - Dealing with Bacterial and Algae Blooms
Cloudiness can be caused in your aquarium by two things, excess growth of bacteria or algae. It is normal to see some cloudiness in a newly established tank and, provided you have cycled the tank properly, it will clear in a few days on its own. If the cloudiness is caused by an algae bloom it may look slightly green. Look at the filter material if you can't tell as it traps the algae and will look green. Cloudiness that is white is caused by an overgrowth of bacteria.
Bacteria bloom is usually caused by an excess of nutrients in the tank that feed the bacteria so that they grow out of control. It can have a detrimental affect on your fish as the bacteria consume oxygen that the fish need and they may suffer or even die from oxygen deprivation. “OK I get it so how do I know which one is missing?”
Algae are plants that need potassium and nitrogen as fertilisers

One kit which will give accurate ammonia test results and read the "free ammonia" (NH3, the dangerous ammonia) is the Seachem ammonia test kit. (NH4 ammonia is non toxic to the fish)
I have used this while using an amine based product.(ammonia derivative that helps stabalize the main ingredient, in my case it was copper while using Cupramine)
This kit was easy to use, the color chart was easy to read to get fairly precise results, and it took only 15 minutes to obtain a result.Print in red has been copyed.

So even after reading this I don’t know what to do. I have decided this is insane doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[MarcG]

White worms are planaria and alot of times result from having excess food in/on the substrate. Gravel vaccing helps alot with that but if the tank is planted that makes it a little more difficult. Bare bottom you'll probably never see them again unless it gets NASTY.

The cloudy white is probably just a bacterial imbalance... if the tank hadn't been changed in a while OR is still fairly new (under 4-5 months i'd say) then the water changes may have killed some of the filter bacteria.. the bloom is from the remaining bacteria multiplying like crazy to eat all of the food (in this case probably ammonia). If you cleaned it 100% to remove gravel then that would be the cause. The gravel holds alot of that bacteria... as do the filters. That sponge should hold quite a bit. Never had good luck with Bio-Wheels maintaining good bacteria long term... so I wouldn't expect much from them.

It'd be a good idea to get the water tested to really know. Most local pet stores will test water for free, and any chains should.. call ahead to be sure. They might just be able to sell you a seachem tester, but it probably isn't 100% necessary. If the tank was cleaned out completely then you're going through another cycle..

Personally I would let it go and see if ammonia/nitrite spikes too high.. keep an eye on the fish.. see if cycle rebounds and water clears up and levels rebalance... if not, fish may be in for a bumpy ride.. may want to get a bacterial product like Cycle or one of the other brands to try and get it going again in that case.

[foggy]

Personally I would let it go and see if ammonia/nitrite spikes too high.. keep an eye on the fish.. see if cycle rebounds and water clears up and levels rebalance... if not, fish may be in for a bumpy ride.. may want to get a bacterial product like Cycle or one of the other brands to try and get it going again in that case.

Yea but the water gets so bad when I add Stability by Seachem I get such a bright geen color. I bought it back when I took all the media out of it. As to get rid or the white worms.

I thought i must of real had dirty water I had more than one fish die on me, the first one started with swim bladder, also had gill problems
with two of them, I guess my subtrait was to deep even though I cleaned twice a week.
I only have one out of six still alive.

I wanted to post some photos but can't for some reason. I do have test kits I use prime nothing comes up wrong, never does.
No many which test I use, a dip stick, or the viles with the drops you add, comes up good. temp at 85 degrees.
Looking for ammonia with two fish? Does this happen with the lights? I'm not being a smarty pants, I to a vacum every other day.
But was thinking they look like they need somthing sothing. Maybe at half the dose!

[MarcG]

I can almost guarantee you that the fish getting sick and dying is a result of stress..from changes in environment and addition of chemicals..possibly poor health from the get-go, since many LFS can't maintain proper conditions for Discus. How long have you had the fish and when did they first start seeming off?

Again, I would recommend backing down a bit with the water changes unless you plan on doing 100% daily.. let the bacteria cycle through and keep the filtration going to keep everything aerated and clean. Medication would probably make the situation worse.. maybe someone else has a recommendation for a 'discus de-stress' remedy?

[foggy]

So I should measure the Quote
"Algae are plants that need potassium and nitrogen as fertilisers

One kit which will give accurate ammonia test results and read the "free ammonia" (NH3, the dangerous ammonia) is the Seachem ammonia test kit. (NH4 ammonia is non toxic to the fish)
I have used this while using an amine based product.(ammonia derivative that helps stabalize the main ingredient, in my case it was copper while using Cupramine"

It's so hard to not at least change 10 gal out it well get real green I tryed to post a picture picture I have to have 10 post first.

So what knid of test can I do with using prime? OR should I do?

[Hopeful]

My Dad had the same problem, very green water. It didn't matter what we did or what we added, it stayed green. The end result was a complete tear down of the tank and start over, we were lucky enough to get a sponge from a healthy tank to kick start the cycle and used stability from seachem. Dads tank if at all went through maybe a slight cycle and the fish showed no stress and the green has never come back(knock on wood) as for the gill disease thats what we thought but it turns out to be to many metals in the water that was causing the fish flash and basicaly freak out. we are now using r/o. by the way green water doesn't seem to hurt the fish and I also use prime and do not and never had green water.
hope this helps

[Hopeful]

Oh when I said complete tear down I mean I bleached everything, including gravel and filters. Alot of work but in the end less stress.

[foggy]

Turns out it has been my light, to much of it, Yea I did the clean every thing out thing before i took out all substrate kept as much water as I could, this is how I got rid of the white worm, that and a treatment with Ich-Attach cleaning out the filters. It wasn’t overnight but I did get rid of them, was real surprised to find they were from a dirty tank. I found out my subtrate was to deep. Probably decaying plant roots.
But the green came back and came back. A lot of water changes every day at least 3 bukets= 15 gals out and 15 gals in my tank was so much work. I could not understand where the green came from. Turns out to much light. I have H5 light with a timer so I pushed a few off during the day it has cleared right up crystal clear. I now am enjoying my 75 gal tank. I set across the room from all day long.
It's cool I raise my arms and wave at my fish they put there fins up and then go up and down the glass in response to my action.
I need to know about the blue light does that hurt my fish eyes?
Any one know? Or I need to read more?
Linda from SLC, Ut

[aalbina]

Glad to hear things are looking up for you and your fish! I've never heard nor read that blue lights hurt a fish's eyes. Where did you hear or read that?

Adam

[foggy]

Hello Adam, Not 100% sure. But I use to be a member at Holland Discus and I think it might have been there. But also it may have been when I was looking for an active Fourm. But yea there was someyhing about the whole light spectrum that hurt there eyes! The topic was giving the plants everthing that was advaible. Then like this all knowing going said the blue light hurts discus eyes. So it's nottrue?
I love having the blue light on it brings out great color. So can I run the blue light all day? I have been trying that because of turning off the white light during the day. Then at night I have the moon light I relly enjoy that as well. I have crystal pelets in the tank and the moon light flickers off them. I can see my fish sleeping. All right this is my tenth post i can now post pictures.

[foggy]

Now I can show you what I'm talking about or writing about! Here is what I have been fighting.[IMG][/IMG]

[foggy]

So this is my two fish in my 75 gal tank. My Pretty Boy is up front and the blu boy is what I call the baby. I thought he was a goner not to long ago. Whike I was trying chemacals to try and clear up the water,
he started jumping and spas out, looked to me like he just wanted out of the water.
If I know any thing its to keep changing the water. So this is what I was doing. the water got clear but the baby was jumping!
I wanted clear water for Thanksgiving I had my family over. That was one reason I started with the water conditioner. But the day after I was changing that water out.
I thought the blue guy was a goner he was hiding behind the lagre fikter and was mostly black with a foged over eye. Looked like light spots were starting here and there,
I just keep trying to clear with the daily water changes. I thought it was kind of funny or strange that the discus looked there best in the green water!!!
So i started .5 the tank.
It was keeping the green at bay some what.
After I cut down the white light now I have this.

there a little bared from the flash this was not the first flash.

[hehe]

Man that tank looks absolutely out of hand. I would set up a small QT tank immediately and drain, sterilize, and start over on the 75. How did you get the tank cycled prior to adding your discus? You should do a fishless cycle with ammonia (can get pure ammonia at any ace hardware store)

If you have a properly cycled tank and want perfect water quality for your fish, use peat- trust me. There are messy and inefficient ways to do it, but there are also clean ways. Without getting too specific, I treat my tanks constantly with peat in a clean way. My alkaline, hard water goes down to 6.0 ph and 75 tds within 30 minutes of filtering in my storage tank...

[foggy]

What kind of peat moss? and what do you do? put it in your filter within a nylon? I don't have a storage tank.
I use prime. Do you use Discus Essential? I keep thinking I should put some in but I'm concerned it will turn green again. Any recommendations here would be greatly appreciated?
Thanks
Linda

[foggy]

The green is back : ( I have a story behind it here it goes, I am on a strict financial diet. So after reading in the forums about making food from beef heart I decided I could co this cause I can get it with my Food stamps, so I made them some food. Beef heart, white fish, garlic, pectin, jar of baby food bananas, ground it up froze it. Feed it to them, I only had two discus in my 75 gal front room tank. My newest fish I called the blue baby, he went crazy for it loved it, but my older fish did not eat any of it. The baby got sick it would not eat hid up under the filter. About a week later died.
I have been feeding my silver dollars the food they love it. Since I only had one fish in my tank I brought the dollars out to be with my Pretty Boy. I started the water changes more frequently with 20 to 25 gals a day again of course now my tank is so foggy I can’t see the back.

I use Prime in every water bucket I tote. Last week I tried Algaefix from API, it did nothing. My son was over last night he told me leave it alone. OK but for how long? How deep of green does it need to be?
Today I started using Stability New Tank Stabilization by Seachem I already had it. After reading in the forum again I thought I hope this is the problem.

I was feeing my Discus The granules in the morning and Blood worms at night. I read how blood worms or more like a treat rather than good food for them. I thought I would be doing some thing good for them and easer on my pocket book.

I don’t have a UV sterilizer, or an RO. I guess I better start keep fish that like hard water, but I LOVE my Discus, I cried for two days over my blue baby.

I don’t know what to think about the food? I still feed the silver dollar the Beef Heart, my discus won’t eat it so he just gets the granules, do you think he will be OK with just the granules for two or three weeks?
Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks
Linda Walker owner of
www.lindasdriedflowers.com