Need a little Light advice

Been lurking for awhile reading, learned alot, but i need some input.

Ive got a 75g planted discus tank thats been running since november. Fine Sand substrate, planted with 5 amazon swords (10" tall) and about 20 tiger vals (2-24&quot. Water paramaters are as follows...

PH 6.6
Temp - 30'C (86'F)
KH 3dh GH 5dh
Ammonia/nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 10mg/L (before wc's)
Phosphate - 0.25mg/L
Fe - 0.1mg/L

WC water is regenerated RO, ph adjusted with Peat. Changed about 40% twice a week. One fluval 404 (didnt read before buying), and 2 48" twin bulb fluorescent strips across the top of the tank.

I had a cyanobacteria break out about 2 months ago. ive been trying to reduce it using wc's and monitoring nutrient levels to try and let the plants outcompete the cyano for nutrients. So far i havent had any luck, and since playing with my nutrients some of my plants have slowly started to fall, yellowing leaves on the swords and brown clear leaves on the vals.

Been trying to read everything i can come by across this forum, (found the "answers to some algea questions" by Biotypical was a great help), but i havent had any luck finding a balance.

I dont have any co2 injection, light period is 12 hours a day, have two 12" air stones on either side of the tank, and my light strips have 4 Sylvania Gro Lux bulbs. I came across a thread yesterday that suggested some types of bulbs help contribute to the growth of cyanobacteria. Off the top of my head, sometihng like 680-800 was ideal for plant growth, but from 400-620 as some cheaper bulbs produce only aid in the cyanobacteria growth, and sorry i cant remember the units this referred to.

Any suggestions for another brand of bulb to replace the gro lux's? i admit im very new to worrying about light and plant needs, this is my first planted tank. They give off a very pink glow, and was thinking about replacing two of them with something whiter or bluer, again, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

If possible this week i was going to do a tear down and move my discus to a second tank ive readied for them and clean all the cyanobacteria from my driftwood, sand, and plants. Any thoughts on the substrate as well, and id greatly prefer to keep the sand, love the look, but do i need a layer of flourite or peat/clay beneath it?

This site has helped with a good deal already, and im open to any suggestions and comments, and if you have anymore questions just ask.

Edit: Discus are fed frozen Blood Word/Brine shrimp/mysis shrimp mixed together, and i use Tropica Master grow fertilizer to keep the Fe at 0.1mg/L.

[gj555]

There are a few things that you can do that may help you.

With respect to your lighting situation, you have just over 2 watts per gallon which should be OK for the plants you are growing. Not tons of light but should be enough. If 4 gro-lux's are too pink for you, you should try varying the light. Plus these gro-lux's are also great IME for growing algae. To save money, you can try replacing 2 of the lights with 6500k daylight bulbs from your local hardware store. This will also improve the look of your tank and make it less pink.

If you bg algae (cyano) is really bad, you can try a few things. One is to black out the tank with a very thick blanket for 4 days. Remove the blanket at the end of the 4th day and suck up all the dead algae.

Another thing you can try is try lowering your lights levels down to 8-10 hours a day. At the same time, you can try daily water changes and try and suck up all of the cyano during the water changes. I also notice that you use RO water. When you regenrate it what do you use? Some products are high in phosphates. I notice your tank does have measurable phosphates. This to me may be a big contributor to your algae. How is your tap water?

One way to get rid of Cyano (it works well for me but some don't like it) is to treat your tank with Erythromyacin anti-botics. Use 1/2 the recommended dose. I usually dose, wait 24 hours, dose again, wait 24 hours do a large water change.

Sometimes co2 injection helps plants grow and outcompete algae for nutrients. One thing you can try is turning off the airstones. Airstones promote the degassing of CO2 out of the aquarium. This may help increase CO2 levels. You can also try do-it-yourself co2 using the sugar yeast method.

You can also try to add human iron and calcium supplement pills deep below the sand underneath the swrds. Swords are root feeders, so using so these may do better than tropica mg for you.

The above are some suggestions which you should of course not try all at once. They may or may not work. THey are all stuff I have tried at one point or another. Try one or two and see if they help. Remember that change to a tank (especially dying leaves, poor growth, etc.) will not happen overnight but will take a few weeks.

[ronrca]

One of the things to remember with cyano is the fact that it is not an algae but a strain of bacteria. The common name is blue green algae but the real name is cyanobacteria. Therefore, the remedy is slightly different than fighting algae.
The best way to get rid of cyano is using Erythromyacin. I have used it quite a few times already without any side effects to plants and fish. The bad news is if you are Canadian, you can not buy it in the petstores. This entails a different method which is many water changes and always cleaning the cyano up everytime. Im actually at the tail end of a cyano out break. So far so good.

I would not recommend using the 'blackout' method. This is only setback the plants causing algae problems later. You need to continue to keep your plants happy for them to out compete the algae. This means keeping up lighting conditions and fertilization schedules. This may sound ironic. The worst thing you can do is change one or more factors as algae can respond to changes quicker than plants. Believe me, Im still battling algae out break because I switched fertilizer brands and concentrations.

I hth! And as mentioned, it takes time. Im already at week 4 with enough algae but it has improved a lot and every week I see an improvement. Patience!

[ChloroPhil]

You need CO2 and Potassium. The reason you're getting the algae is all the free Phosphate and Nitrate in your system. The addition of CO2 will benefit your plants greatly and in turn will benefit your aquarium with reduced algae.

K let me grab these in order...

I dont really care about the pink glow from the gro lux's, only reason i bought them was as a cheaper solution to plant lighting than the 40-50 dollar bulbs. But at the moment id take some recommendations for good bulbs to put in my strips, and where to get them.

I dont like the black out idea, my plants will probably react worse to 4 days without light than the cyano will. thats why i wanted to adjust my water params to make it more plant friendly, just gotta make sure its good for the discus first of all

For my RO regen, im in the middle of switching over to Kent RO right from RO vital. and no phosphates in my wc water.

i was going to use Erythromyacin, aside from trying to get a hold of it, i was worried about it affecting my biological filter.

I may turn off the airstones, maybe at the next water change, and wont change anything else just yet. if the plants are in good health i wouldnt need them anyway.

Id like to hear some more on supplements or additives for the water or for the substrate. Im still thinking about tearing the tank down to clean it up and take out most of the black sand substrate and throw a little white in with it.

Ronrca, im trying to be as patient as i can ;D ive tried adjusting too many things all at once and everything has gone to hell.

Biotypical, i should have cleared it up, i have no algea, small amounts on my glass that my pleco cleans totally off every night. The cyano is my only problem at the moment.

Ill have to check my potassium, dont have anyway to check for it, and bring it up to the 15-20mg/l in the next couple weeks. Ill look into the Co2 but at the moment its not likely. anybody else second removing the airstones?

im still not sure about tearing the tank down, time permitting. Dont have nearly enough.

Thanks

[ronrca]

If you are not fighting algae just cyanobacteria, use Erythromyacin! It will not affect your bio! I have used it a couple of days with no side effects, just dead cyano! Other than that, if your plants are growing, you are doing fine!

[Smokey]

Just you to show you fellow ... BARE BOTTM is the wya to go. lol. ;D ;D ;D

Smokey

[dm]

Bare Bottom IS the way to go in some cases but nothing lights up a room like a nice Showtank!! ;D

[ari_wh]

Yes... Nothing is more magnificent than watching adult discus swimming in between the plants..... A lot of work, of course... but I think it is all worth it.

I am fighting hair algae at the moment, what a pain... but getting there, and hopefully in the next week or two... my plants will thrive again .

Regards, Ari

[canuk]

I had some serious green water and when that went away I had to deal with heavy algea. I took bio's advice and added co2 and 1/2 teaspoon of K/3 times a week. It's been 3 weeks and the plants arer starting to win over the algea. Patients and persistance.

Ive got one BB and two show tanks. BB is easy to care for, but the beauty of a planted discus tank is worth the extra work. Seems to keep the water quality up to.

Ron, next time around if i have another cyano problem ill give the Erythromyacin a shot if i can get my hands on some. Im still thinking im gonna tear my tank down and change my substrate to something a little lighter. probably a 60/40 mix of white/black sand. the white really lightened up my other show tank and i love the look of it, i gotta clean up all the cyano so i might as well do everything at once.

Biotypical or anybody else that wants to chime in, can a put a layer of something under my sand to encourage my plant growth? I dont know which type of substrate would be best in my situation.

btw, all my yellowed and browned leaves have come back, took a couple days, probably from when i changed my fertilizer doses. Everything is in decent shape, just slow growth.

Ill probably pull my air stones when i do the cleanup as well.

Thanks to all

[ChloroPhil]

If you're going to use sand put Laterite under it.

Keep in mind that a light substrate will wash out your fishes' color. If you want a brighter tank add more light. It's easier to keep clean and your plants will appreciate it.

[ronrca]

You can also go with flourite mixed with gravel/sand or as a layer under gravel/sand. There are many, many kinds of substrate materials that will encourage plant growth, even using potting soil (so Ive heard)! However, as far as I know, flourite is the easiest to work with imo though I have not tried laterite yet!

You may also want to check out Dave's site! He had a tank with white sand.

http://members.shaw.ca/dclubine/master.htm
Click planted tank in the left menu!

Very cool! Someone from Edmonton! Where abouts in Edmonton! Btw, if you find some Erythromyacin, let me know! As far as I know, we cant get it in Canada anymore!

Just noticed your up here too Ron ;D

Right by Beaumaris, spittin distance from St. Albert. PM me ill buy ya a beer.

i love the look of that white sand, and i wanted to make my tank look a little more like my discus' natural home, but its only gonna be about a 50/50 or 60/40 white/black. Ill give the flourite a shot, how much of a layer under the sand? inch? half inch?

Im runnin around to get my 20 set up and running between work, pair of my blue rams spawned during the night and are driving everybody else in the tank nuts.

[canuk]

It's good to see some more disc freaks in northern alta, i'm in Grande Prairie ;D