F1 G1 meanings?

[grrrr8guy]

I recently set up an african cichlid tank and went to some aution meetings with some clubs here in Canada.


I was surprised to find out F1 - F2 etc only mean the parents are known not how many generations they are removed from the wild.


It is the G letters apparently are the codes that depict how many generations as in G1 one generation from wild parents etc.

So when someone is using the term f1 f2 etc it it dosnt relly mean too much. Have I been misled here?


grrr8guy

[Willie]

None of these terms have any scientific validity, guy. They are general terms used by aquarists, but there is no set convention. So its not surprising if African cichlid people use different terms from discus people. For discus, F0 refers to wild fish, F1 refers to a fish whose parent was wild caught, etc...

Willie

[daninthesand]

Actually, as far as I undestand, the "F" in F1, F2, etc applies to a recognized genetic code for the "filial" generation. F1 would mean the first filial offspring of a pair of parents. The relationship is to the parents, regardless of the parents' generation from wild.

The P group is the parents.
F1 is their kids
F2 is their grand kids
F3 is their great grand kids etc etc.

I have seen the term "f1 from wild" used. In this case it would imply the P group were wild caught and the f1 offspring would be the parents' spawn. Incidentally, any subsequent spawn from this same pair of parents would also be labelled f1. All spawns from these parents are f1.

I am not familliar with the G coding.

Daniel

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, the F1, F2, etc. covers more than wilds. I don't have any idea how many generations my pigeon bloods are from the wild, lol, but when I breed brother to sister I will be breeding F1 to produce F2

[grrrr8guy]

Ok clear as mud lol

As I had suspected the more people that respond the more answers / opinions we might have as to what these codes mean.

My point is this I see these terms used by breeders with different species and it sounds good but the unsuspecting public eats it up like candy mistakingly thinking they are getting something really special.


It's almost as bogus as the term vip (very important person) which is used to push almost anything you can think of in the commercial world.

Buyer Beware!!!!


grrr8guy

[daninthesand]

If a breeder is using the terms incorrectly then that is bogus. Unscrupulous breeders? Nothing new.

The filial designation is not bogus. Look in any genetics textbook and the term is a scientific standard.

Unfortunately a lot of breeders are not scientific to say the least.

Daniel

[Willie]

In genetics, the terminology is used to define the genetic inheritance pattern resulting from specific crosses.

F0 is almost always a pure breeding line, that is, homozygous at every loci. Occasionally, the F0 line may be related. However, they are always true breeding.

F1 is a hybrid resulting from two different F0's, therefore heterozygous at every loci where the F0's differ. All the F1s are identical.

F2 from that cross refers to the progeny of F1's. They will segregate for all F0 combinations. F2 is where new gene combinations are expressed. Crossing F1 to an F0 produces a backcross, not an F2.

Are any of these statements true when discus breeders talk about their crosses? Very rarely so. Thus, it represents incorrect usage.

Is this terrible? No, its just a hobby.

Willie

[grrrr8guy]

I agree its justa a hobby.

I wondered though because you read about people getting real excited about Discus they are buying from "Reputable"
breeders who get a higher price sometimes by quoting these codes to the uneducated.

Or even thinking someone has superior stock for that reason.

grrr8guy

[Dave C]

A reputable breeder designation is a matter of one's opinion.

People get excited when they buy Discus from anyone. I've never heard of someone saying "ho hum, I'm getting some new fish from a crappy breeder, whoop de doo". They're all reputable when we buy from them, otherwise we wouldn't slap down our cash.

A higher price is not paid for fish based on F1, F2, F3, it's just a way of describing the fish. Ignore it if you will, no big deal.

Uneducated buyers may not understand the F1, F2 designation but the purpose of the designation remains the same. A breeder cannot tailor his fish descriptions to the lowest knowledge level of his potential customers.

[grrrr8guy]

Hi Dave

I agree people get excited about buying Discus no matter what.

But you might as well call almost everyone uneducated , even the breeders the way they classify Discus because it seems most breeders don't know what to classify them as.

I have to laugh some times , I remember 35 years ago when people could hardly keep wild discus alive and the odd person in my fish club had some "making noise" as the old pros called it.

It has grown into quite a fiasco.

Isn't controversy wonderful if nothing else we all learn something.

grrr8guy