Nitrate Tolerance

[Joel]

I have 2 discus in a 50 gallon tank. I've been reading up about discus care and know that discus requires frequent water changes and I assume this is due to lack of tolerance towards nitrates. What would be the max nitrate level to maintain healthy discus? I assume that frequent water changes are necessary for discus growth but not fatal. My tank's nitrate level is 12 ppm and should I carry out a water change?

[brewmaster15]

Hi Joel,
Nitrates of that level will probably not harm the fish.If they get skittish..suspect nitrates. Is your tank planted? if so..add a few nitrate consumers..water spry, vals, duckweed, etc. iF not.. pothos or philodendron cuttings will do the trick.

-al

[brewmaster15]

as an after thought.. what is your water change regime?

-al

[Joel]

My questions still not answered, what would the nitrate limit for discus? If it is not the nitrates then what else could be potentially harmful to the discus that such frequent water are required?

My tanks 50 gallon with a 20W light and I dont think its sufficent for plants because they keep dying in it. :P

I'm trying to determine how often to change water purely by the nitrate levels but can anyone give me advice?

[brewmaster15]

Joel,
The question hasn't been answered because there is not an answer for it yet.

Nitrates have been linked to many ailments of fish. many have noted that Discus become skittish when nitrates start to rise. Its not a quantitative assessment..its qualitative.

The skittish behavior subsides when the levels of nitrates are reduced thru water changes, or plants.

What you are asking for doesn't exist.

My best advice is start by doing frequent water changes. Monitor your Nitrates. , decrease your water changes, and monitor your nitrates and fish. If your discus behavior or health changes, then increase your water changes and see if it helps.

one last note. ... Nitrates are not the only reason for wc's.

-al

[dred]

Joel,

You might ask: how do I care for Discus in a planted tank? over in the biotope/show tank section.

There are several strategies those guys use, and it might make you happy to know that they change less water.

I'll warn you that from what I can gather, they are much, much more involved in their water chemistry, and the balancing act that keeps both plants and discus happy.

You are right, you are unlikely to do it with 20 watts of light, and even less likely to succeed if you have decaying plant matter fouling your water.

Water changing is the easiest road to success with Discus. The rest all require more study, more effort, more patience, and more attention, so ...

milton

[Joel]

So how often should I change my tank water then?

[brewmaster15]

Hi Joel,
That depends on who you talk to Not trying to be wise guy here, but everyone has their own regime. Personally I think its best to start with 30-50% day, and if you are not comfortable with that back it off.

The key is.. what ever water change you do.. if the tank looks clean, the fish are healthy and happy, and growing well... then thats the regime that works best for you.

The reason why there is so much variability in what is done is because everyones feeding habits are different, foods fed differ, gravel vs no gravel, fish stocking densities, and water chemistries.


Its far more effective to back off the water changes when there is no problem, then increase them when there is a problem-IMO.

hth,
al

[Carol_Roberts]

[quote author=brewmaster15 link=board=1;threadid=11381;start=0#118676 date=1058932211]
Its far more effective to back off the water changes when there is no problem, then increase them when there is a problem-IMO.

hth,
al

[/quote]

I couldn't agree more ;D

[Joel]

I'm a beginner to keeping discus and it seems vague to me by what you said "Its far more effective to back off the water changes when there is no problem, then increase them when there is a problem" What kinds of problem? And I cant exactly see if my discus is growing or not and this takes time...

[Carol_Roberts]

With only two discus in a fifty gallon and no other fish you can change 25% every other day as long as you are careful not to overfeed and don't let frozen or fresh food get lost in the tank to rot.

Better to siphon the bottom everyday

Even better to have a bare bottom tank so you can find all the leftovers

[Joel]

Will a weekly 50% water change be sufficent?

[brewmaster15]

Hi Joel,
Everyone new to discus but experienced with other fish,always has a problem with the pervasive water change obsession that permeates these boards. Your questions are like the ones we always see. I can understand the confusion. why should discus be any different than other fish? In variably there is a period where a beginner tries their proven methods for other fish and in many cases , problems occur. bacterial infections, immune systems weaken and they succumb to worms,protozoans etc. They may not grow as well, get runted...etc. Most wind up with a post in the disease board.

In many cases a discus that goes off the feed , may turn around with improved water quality. What many here will tell you is 30-50 % WC a day if you are feeding for growth, with 3-5 times a day feeding.

Basically the water change mentality is just something many have found to work.

Would it work for you once a week. maybe , but I wouldn't reccommend that to anyone., and I definetly would not reccommend anyone new to discus..skimp on water changes.

what are your tank parameters? what size fish? what other fish? what will you feed and how many times a day. what is your filtration. Are the fish healthy now? flashing? occassional white feces? nicely colored?... all these may effect what water change is best for your tank.

There is no concrete answer and most of the times, someone new to discus... doesn't want the answer many here would give...

GDAWC...Go do a water change...



some threads you may want to read...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...d=9011;start=0

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...=5824;start=30

hope this helps,
al

[Joel]

Parameters
Tank size : ~50 gallon
Temp : 30 celcius (no fluctuations-sunny Malaysia)
pH : ~7 (tap water is neutral but theres a piece of wood)
GH : soft-medium
No plants due to poor lighting

Residents :
2 Juvenile Discus (After checking with other sites, my discus are probably half a year old)
10 tetras (small ones like neons and another kind)
1 ram
4 Albino Cries

I feed my fishes discus pellets and every few days I give them a treat of frozen blood worms (discus go crazy). And thats about all. I figured understocking my tank will reduce the need for water changes but how often should I change my tank water?

I just did a 50% water change today, and I did the same yesterday and I dont know how many more water changes I can do in such a short period of time.

By the way, I'm versed in brackish fishes, particularly puffers. 8)

[angel12]

I hope I understand your concern correctly ... as has been posted above the 12ppm that you have is not to high a Nitrate figure however it is always wise to keep an eye out for unsual behaviour skitishness lack of intrest in food white faces bloated stomach excess slime on skin and many other ailments if you look after your fish and keep up with the water changes and give them a healthy food regime then you will not have any problems.. there is no set magical figure for Nitrate only a general Guide every Human is different in some way and its the same for fish the only thing is that The perameters for Discus are a little more strict than many other fish .....

Maybe this link below will enable you to gain a better Hold on how much water you should change ... I have never used it but it looks like a usefull tool .....

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...calculator.php

HTH