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Thread: Flubendazole side effect....

  1. #16
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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    WOW- i just started treating a pair of red diamonds with flu and this being the third day of treatment and the female has started head standing, noticed it this morning as a matter. It must have something to do with the med and i be some strains are more resistant to the side effects than others. I would almost lay bets that the spotted fish are more effected than the other strains, weak *** strains i hate them but yous got to love them also.
    Oscar
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    i say this cause i have a pair of SS that are on it as well and not showing any side effects.

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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    Oscar,
    Pull that tail stainder out of the flubendazole and place in a tank without it , with luck it'll snap out of it in a few days.

    hth,
    al

  3. #18
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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    Interesting post. Keep the replys comming.

    Smokey

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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    Hi,

    I think a lot of you will find this very interesting.

    As you know, us Brits are not as fortunate as yourselves in having such a wide range of meds over the counter and in most cases have to rely on vetinarian intervention.

    Anyway, the week before Xmas, i succesfully diagnosed Roundworms in one of my 6 Discus..varying strains..had them for between 10 months and 2 years.

    Off i popped to the vet...prescribed Panacur Liquid 10% strength. I actually queried it with the vet at the time as i was looking for Panacur granules but he said that they only had liquid and he had checked his reference books and it was ok to use.

    Fair enough i thought...back home dosed at 1ml per 50l of water..to be repeated in one month. First day, i was delighted..pretty good worm clearout that i hoovered up...fish looked better coloured and were like gannets eating their food!

    Day three....All fish develop a milky white substance over their bodies and eyes..all crowded together in a corner.
    Immediate 90% water change followed by adding both activated carbon and 2 Polyfilters.

    Day 4...tail standing starts...conduct regular daily water changes with re-mineralised RO of 30%..no change..have to euthanise my smallest Discus as it begins thrashing wildly in the tank and damages itself.

    Day 5...Boxing day for God's sake!! (day after Xmas), turn tank lights on...utter carnage...22 dead Cardinal Tetras, 11 dead Hatchet fish, 1 dead Discus. Remaining 4 Discus are either tail standing, laying completely flat on the substrate or completely flat on the surface.

    Anyway...to cut an already long story short, as of today, i have lost 6 adult Discus, 40 Cardinal tetras and 14 Hatchet fish..no losses for the last 2 weeks thank god!!

    As you might imagine..i have had several detailed and meaty discussions with my vet, Professional Discus breeders in the UK and a wholemultitude of Discus fanciers.

    The end result is that nobody in the UK has heard of any side affects associated with Panacur liquid...the two leading fish vetinarians in the UK were spoken to by my vet and neither could confirm any side affects nor questioned the dosage/application or prescription. Basically my vet was NOT liable.

    The only person (who i spoke to) world wide who had any sort of experience with Panacur liquid were Ron and Robyn Futtrell. I discussed the case in some detail with Robyn who had only experienced a case whereby the med was added to food and the fish obviously died.

    I post this now as a warning to anybody administering Panacur liquid Fenbendazole 10% at a dosage of 1ml per 50l of water.....not enough is known about it's use in fish..you could end up with Discus Armageddon like me!!

    Anyway...as you can imagine, i had a pretty horrific Xmas and New Year and am now busy preparing my tank for another 8 Discus that i hope to purchase in the next couple of months.

    Hope you found the above info interesting and perhaps useful as well.

    Thanks and best regards,

    Martin

  5. #20
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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    Martin;

    Sorry to hear that you lost the discus.

    Thank you for your insite and expierence.

    Smokey

  6. #21
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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    Yet, even with this wisdom; There is the problem; with some persons, not being able to understand and properely administer the approiate medication's for tropical fish.
    Many more discus will be destroyed.

    Smokey
    P.S. not to single out any one particular person. Please be very aware of what you administer to your tropical fish tank. AND the proper proceedure, necessary for the medication.


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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    I found this thread by doing a search on the meds.

    I was able to aquire some fenbendazole from my vet (I've been taking my dog there for almost 3 yrs now, so I have a good relationship with him). I told the vet what it was for, how I was going to administer it, etc etc and he agreed. He actually gave it to me, didn't even bother selling it to me since I only needed a little bit from him.

    To make a long story short, I've used it 3 times now, once in my community tank, and twice for new fish in QT. The 1st two times were perfect, and I followed instructions exactly. I got them from DPH:

    http://article.discusnews.com/cat-02/panacur-1.shtml

    No problems, both times worms were expelled, and fish were happy. The 3rd time (just last week) I wasn't paying attention to the amount I was putting into their food. (Stupid, stupid, stupid :-\) I added WAY too much of the powder to the food, and I got the exact same results: dark colours, tailstanding, etc etc. 5 out of the 6 of my new baby (2.5 - 3&quot F1 heckels ... dead. :'(

    I guess the morale of the story is: pay attention to what you're doing with meds. (As Smokey already mentioned.)

    I know that bladerunner was following instructions, but I would have to say that this was too much medicine for them to handle.

  8. #23
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    Default Re:Flubendazole side effect....

    Just wondering Bladerunner: what, if anything, did you do when you noticed they weren't looking good?

    Large wc's, salt, high temp, epsom salts, etc???

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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    Quote Originally Posted by blackghost
    I think there is a connection between flubendazone and tail standing but it may be governed by some other factors.
    I can't be more specific, as I'm not sure of all the treatmrents given, but could solvents ( acetone or DMSO ) be a factor in the variability of the results ?

    These solvents may be somewhat involved, as DMSO is said to be able to drive pathogens through the skin and evade the body's first lines of defense. When applying DMSO to arthritic joints, the caution that is important is to have absolutely uncontaminated DMSO, and also you must thoroughly cleanse the skin first.

    In addition, acetone may cause bacterial bloom, and could have a similar effect as the DMSO, driving pathogens straight into the fish.

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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    You're onto something here, Al. New thread on Angelfish Forum 2 . "Medication Query". Tailstander Discus after F. treatment.
    Last edited by raglanroad; 05-14-2005 at 09:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    Wonder what the effect of these meds/ solvents is on the plastic, sponges, and silicones. Maybe they are being dissolved into the water.
    It could also be that water parameters such as pH play a role, or TDS, driving the meds in, at a far greater rate for some water conditions.
    Also, wondering just what solvents are included in the paste or liquid forms.

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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    Hi

    Raglan - thanks for telling me of this. If only I'd known sooner :sigh

    I didn't use any solvents.

    The wormers themselves should not have any solvents as the solvents in question are for topical use only (and considering our fish are small potatoes beside some multi-million dollar TB that might get sick from it, they aren't taking any chances)

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    Tinnggg, DMSO is routinely used on racehorses for joint problems. It may be in the paste, as a super solvent, to drive in the medicine. It is considered safe if the area is sterilized first. Fish are not sterilized first.
    Here it is http://www.vetvax.com/linaments.html
    I am starting to think the fish die from columnaris AJS1. Loss of control, and whitish slime, hard breathing. The white slime may not be evident if the fish die quickly. At most, a few opaque oval patches on the clear fins.
    Last edited by raglanroad; 05-22-2005 at 07:39 AM.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    Hi everyone,

    I have used flubendezole in one of my tanks last week. I have applied a rather unknown method I guess. I have used lactic acid + flubendezole + water and then added to the tank. The mix stayed a week in the tank WITHOUT no water changes. Before and after addition I have done 40% water change. On the second day of treatment the water turned whitish and stayed like that about 20 hours. Then it passed. I did not have any abnormalities or I guess side effects. Now the fish are all ok. I had one sick fish in that tank and 2 fish which were way out of the strong form. Now all are ok, eating and a bit more "alive" (I mean those three move much more, come to food and so on)... We will see what happens next.

    Oh btw, two pairs have formed out of the group I dont know why... Maybe just a chance...

    Kagan
    Last edited by Kagan; 05-27-2005 at 01:37 AM.
    DISCUSKAGO

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    Default Re: Flubendazole side effect....

    I have used flubendazole on my Heckels without noticing any problems. Heckels are very sensitive to adverse things be they external such as water quality or internal diseases.
    I have had experiences with fancy domestic discus having balance problems caused by gas in ther digestive track which can be stressful for dicus and keeper alike. It happens when too much dry food is fed and some times is associated with the sequence and types food their are fed. I notice this most when the dicus are in adolescence and like teenagers I think that not a the parts of the anatomy(swim bladder control) is in balance with their rapidly growing bodies because after they have grown up and reach spawning size/age the problem disappears.

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