Flubendazole side effect....

[Mistakes R Crucial]

Thanks Eyal, one thing this has proved is that Discus people are a breed all their own. The support I'm receiving from Discus people in Australia is simply overwhelming.
MAC

[FishyMatty]

About two weeks ago now I noticed red worms hanging out of the anus of one of my male apistos. He died shortly after. I began to read about what these worms were and how to treat. I found an article about using fenbenzadole(panacur) with exact dosing amounts to mix in the food and to pour in the tank. About two days after I began treatment I found this sticky. After reading it I started trying to remove all traces of the panacur from my tanks. (two tanks infested with camallanus)
Since I discontinued treatment I lost 3 discus and the remaining are tail standing with no balance for swimming and now not eating at all. In my other tank Many of my apistos are visibly infected and since the major sets of water changes to remove the meds many of the fish have died and their fins began to rot off. Still visibly infected, but still eating unlike the discus.
Now I need to know from the experienced, how likely is it that all the fish in these tanks have it just not visible, and should I try a different treatment or just euthanize all my fish, and the discus who now have not eaten in a few days and are doing worse each day, should I kill them. This is really stressful and I just want it to be over.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Matty,
Sorry about the issues you are having.. the med you used is closely related to flubendazole and they both can have the same effects...the burned skin/fins and tail standing... Fenbendazole should never be added to the tank as the effect is worse than flubendazole. It sounds like you poured it into the tank? where ever those directions came from , they were not the best.....
It is safe to use in the food....

Camillanus
Camillanus is easily recognized as a small thread-like worm protruding from the anus of the fish. Control of this nematode in non-food fish is with fenbendazole, a common antihelminthic. Fenbendazole can be mixed with fish food (using gelatin as a binder) at a rate of 0.25% for treatment. It should be fed for three days, and repeated in three weeks.

source...
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...es_intro.shtml




The tail standers may recover...but it can take weeks...watch for secondary bacterial infections on the burned fish... keep the tanks very clean.

On the worms....instead of treating with panacur... you can try levamisole...its safe to add to the water...as a 24 hour bath... it should be safe ..its a sheep dewormer sold under the name tramisole.......either that or rest the fish a week or two and use the panacur in the food as directed above...

hth,
al

[FishyMatty]

I would just like to add one last thing about the experience I had with fenbenzadole.
My other tank of Apistos were heavily infected with camilanus worms and after soaking their food in the panacur for 5 days the worms have completely disappeared. For anyone that can only get panacur be sure to only use it in the food and don't let any get into the tank. There was no adverse side effects in the apistos from the panacur.

[MostlyDiscus]

Beware the Fenbenzadole. I saw this sticky and thought I would put it into play again. I used Fenbenzadole with dmso and had the same results as most people on this thread. Tail standers and death. I have lost over 100 fish now and more to follow. Kenny save me some discus. Ed

[pcsb23]

Beware the Fenbenzadole. I saw this sticky and thought I would put it into play again. I used Fenbenzadole with dmso and had the same results as most people on this thread. Tail standers and death. I have lost over 100 fish now and more to follow. Kenny save me some discus. Ed

Just a quick note here. Flubendazole and Fenbendazole are not the same medicine. I believe they are from the same family of medicines.

Fenbendazole must NEVER be used in water, use in food.

Flubendazole may be used in water and food.

There is some evidence to suggest that DMSO is harmful to fish, even Untergasser issues a warning in his book. Flubendazole can be distributed in the water and allowed to dissolve that way, I have found that by using a 2 litre pop or soda bottle with RO water in I can get a decent suspension going after shaking it vigorously for a while.

[rfeiller]

when Flubendazole was first introduced into the hobby in the 80's it was mixed with either DMSO or pharmacutical grade acetone. the purpose was to eradicate formalin resistant gill flukes. i maintained several thousand discus in my hatchery at the time and never once did i have the side effects that i have read here. i acquired my flubendazol from german discus breeders or from florida fish farms. i used it on fry the size of a dime to old large adults. i did experience a reduction in breeding for a couple of weeks after treatment.

i never mixed it with the food, always used it in suspension with DMSO. i'm at a loss to understand what has been going on lately with the headstanding.

one very important fact with DMSO or any carrier, the carrier will also carry toxins in the water through the fish's tissue along with the flubendazole. my tanks were void of anything but sponge filters, potted plants, and central mixing systems. no heaters in tanks. the DMSO has the ability to penatrate the "winter eggs" of flukes. you can treat with formalin every few days till you die of old age and a few fluke eggs will survive.

by the way if someone tells you that there discus are totally parasite free...RUN there is not such animal

[Daniella]

This is scary. Anyone have tried Hikary Wormer Plus? it is said to be safe and designed for fish.

[seanyuki]

I think you meant Kusuri Worm Plus.....looks like a good product but available in UK & not yet in the States/Canada.


Quote...

New Wormer Plus - 500 gallon

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Price: £6.99
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NEW..... WORMER PLUS.

Worms are a fact of life for discus; every discus carries its own complement of worms. When in good health these worms are not a problem, but as soon as the fish is stressed or bullied etc its natural immunity is compromised and worms can take a hold. A sure sign of a worm problem is when a discus still eats, yet is wafer thin with the famous pinched in look above the eyes.

New wormer plus will rid discus of tapeworms, leeches, gill flukes, body flukes, fish lice (Argulus), and internal helminths such as round worms, pin worms, nematodes, hydra, ick, velvet and protozoa plus a host of other pest.

This product can be mixed with other aquarium products and medications. Even snails will never again be a pest when using this product, just once a month. Although a second dose after seven days may be needed in heavy infestations of flukes, or if treating for Hexamita. So when your discus looks emaciated or just worn out use new wormer plus on a regular basis and do them a favour.

Using new wormer plus once a month will help to keep your valued discus and tropical fish in tip top health. It is not necessary to turn off U/V sterilisation during its application, but it is advisable to remove carbon etc whilst using this medication for full effect.

This product can be used with rays and is safe to use in aquariums with plants, and it will not harm the biological filtration in your filters. Not to be confused with the old wormer plus, the new version has a different mix of ingredients and is manufactured by Kusuri products ltd that holds a manufacturing licence to this product. It is different to the recently used powdered wormers. Flubendazole is still the main active ingredient in the new version. Then naturally sourced calcium carbonate acts as a gentle booster and pick me up after the pests are killed.

This product does not contain antibiotics and is still marketed with the small animal exemption scheme. It is 100% legal; VMD approved, passed with risk phrases also safety phrases and has been covered with a COSHH sheet. The new wormer plus has a easy to use 30 gallon measuring scoop (supplied) in every pack which is another improvement, making it easy to measure out and to administer the treatment. Instructions are on the back of every pack.

This wormer will not raise your PH, TDS or GH, if fact with the many test Kusuri and Plymouth discus have done you may get a slight drop. Great news for Amazon species.

Now keeping your favourite tropical fish has never been easier. Some one at the recent Glee trade show in Birmingham said to me, “after 30 years of discus keeping why all of a sudden do I need to worm my fish?” The answer is simple, 30 years ago discus was said to be difficult to keep, many said impossible. Discus then had a bad name as a difficult fish to keep. NOT SO, just misunderstood. As long as they have the right conditions, free of parasites etc they are just as easy to keep as any other tropicals, with understanding. Then came all the different worming tactics that actually seemed to work. Was this a fad? Or was this something that someone actually had a hook on? All of a sudden discus was easier to keep, not just because of the parasite control, but more.

It is recommended to worm your discus once a month for trouble free discus keeping, and this will give them a flying start if introducing new stock.

Model: WP500


Unquote

Cheers
Francis

This is scary. Anyone have tried Hikary Wormer Plus? it is said to be safe and designed for fish.

[CarolF]

I have not used this product yet but I did order it and received my package. I no longer have discus and will be trying it on some of my angels.

They will ship to the us and it is reasonable. I spent $55 or $56 dollars for enough product to treat 4000 gallons and that is with shipping.

[Daniella]

I have ordered it from plymouth discus in the UK and received it in Canada without any problem. I will try it soon as I just got a new discus (white butterly) that does not eat and has some white poo (sort of clear white poo) and it has stopped eating.

It might be hex, not sure, but I will try it on that fish in my QT.

after many email exchange with the company, they said they never had any head or tail standing from using Wormer plus and they said that tail or head standing is more bacterial than it is caused by medication. Could be the solvant used also by some people.

I think you meant Kusuri Worm Plus.....looks like a good product but available in UK & not yet in the States/Canada.



Cheers
Francis

[Daniella]

I did try Kushuri Wormer Plus on my white butterfly that was not eating and it did not do head or tail standing on that fish. Not sure what he had but he never eated since I got it 2 months ago and finaly died this week. I tried metro fist and it did not help then tried flubendazole and did not help either.

But after a treatment course with Wormer Plus there was no head or tail standing. I did this treatment about a month ago and when it died it was not head or tail standing either. It just die from not eating all that time.

[Daniella]

Panacur is fenbendazole no? How come the vet did not know it should not be added in the water and only put in food???


How come he/she did not know you can only use flubendazole in the water and not fenbendazole?

How come 2 leading vet did not know about this?? wow very very scary!!

and last but not least, this thread was about side effect of flubendazole. Why people refer to fenbendazole since it is not the same med at all? Maybe most people having bad side effect are incorrectly using fenbendazole instead thinking it's the same as flubendazole? confusing.

I think your vet was very liable for this. This restriction about fenbendazole is all over the net. Even I knew about it.

Hi,


The end result is that nobody in the UK has heard of any side affects associated with Panacur liquid...the two leading fish vetinarians in the UK were spoken to by my vet and neither could confirm any side affects nor questioned the dosage/application or prescription. Basically my vet was NOT liable.

The only person (who i spoke to) world wide who had any sort of experience with Panacur liquid were Ron and Robyn Futtrell. I discussed the case in some detail with Robyn who had only experienced a case whereby the med was added to food and the fish obviously died.

I post this now as a warning to anybody administering Panacur liquid Fenbendazole 10% at a dosage of 1ml per 50l of water.....not enough is known about it's use in fish..you could end up with Discus Armageddon like me!!

[shawnhu]

Panacur is fenbendazole no? How come the vet did not know it should not be added in the water and only put in food???


How come he/she did not know you can only use flubendazole in the water and not fenbendazole?

How come 2 leading vet did not know about this?? wow very very scary!!

and last but not least, this thread was about side effect of flubendazole. Why people refer to fenbendazole since it is not the same med at all? Maybe most people having bad side effect are incorrectly using fenbendazole instead thinking it's the same as flubendazole? confusing.

I think your vet was very liable for this. This restriction about fenbendazole is all over the net. Even I knew about it.

Daniella,

You're right on the money about the confusion, and the effects of the drugs when used improperly. Both drugs are very similar, and I believe they target the same parasites. However, as you've clearly stated, one is to used in the water, and the other is strictly in food. With this thread, and forum, hopefully more people come to realize that the two drugs are not the same, and should take caution as to it's proper use in the aquarium.

I've had no ill effects from using Fenbendazole.

[mbviola1]

I am in the process of doing two 100 gallon tanks. It is one week; no side effects except they appear to getting an appetite and stools are becoming normal again. I am using a 10%; 1/2 tsp. to 40 gallons.
So far so good; what I am surprised about is the length of the treatment that people are doing. Who mentioned 3 weeks on a medication? Kemo?
Also feed very light and med seems to work fast.
All but one fish is back to normal and that fish is small and probably not worth anymore work than this.
Would love to have a dialouge with anyone regarding this and diet.
Personal messages welcomed.
Michael