Flubendazole side effect....

[inkmaker]

Hi Group,
I just want to say that a new article on Flubendazole is over due. I promise one this summer. The Killifish people want that up date as well.

Keep them swimming.

Charles Harrison

[jackyb]

Hello,


I believe one of my fishes has c worms in can see a red paintbrush like coming outta anus and is swimming frantically and has stopped eating. i bought safe guard that is all i have got and mixed it into water, no ill effects on fish so far..

i am aware of the fact that i should mix the meds with food but cant get it eat no matter what i offer. is there anyway to force medication down the throat, maybe with eye drop bottle?

thanks in advance

[ilaizm]

Very interesting thread! Pity I only came across it after one of my discus is head standing after a week from using flubendazole based medication. One thing which this thread does not mention is what to do in the case where you use a flubendazole based medication and get a head stander!

[bach]

Dear Martin, very sad to hear your story. Thanks a lot for your sharing your experience. Regards.

I think a lot of you will find this very interesting.

As you know, us Brits are not as fortunate as yourselves in having such a wide range of meds over the counter and in most cases have to rely on vetinarian intervention.

Anyway, the week before Xmas, i succesfully diagnosed Roundworms in one of my 6 Discus..varying strains..had them for between 10 months and 2 years.

Off i popped to the vet...prescribed Panacur Liquid 10% strength. I actually queried it with the vet at the time as i was looking for Panacur granules but he said that they only had liquid and he had checked his reference books and it was ok to use.

Fair enough i thought...back home dosed at 1ml per 50l of water..to be repeated in one month. First day, i was delighted..pretty good worm clearout that i hoovered up...fish looked better coloured and were like gannets eating their food!

Day three....All fish develop a milky white substance over their bodies and eyes..all crowded together in a corner.
Immediate 90% water change followed by adding both activated carbon and 2 Polyfilters.

Day 4...tail standing starts...conduct regular daily water changes with re-mineralised RO of 30%..no change..have to euthanise my smallest Discus as it begins thrashing wildly in the tank and damages itself.

Day 5...Boxing day for God's sake!! (day after Xmas), turn tank lights on...utter carnage...22 dead Cardinal Tetras, 11 dead Hatchet fish, 1 dead Discus. Remaining 4 Discus are either tail standing, laying completely flat on the substrate or completely flat on the surface.

Anyway...to cut an already long story short, as of today, i have lost 6 adult Discus, 40 Cardinal tetras and 14 Hatchet fish..no losses for the last 2 weeks thank god!!

As you might imagine..i have had several detailed and meaty discussions with my vet, Professional Discus breeders in the UK and a wholemultitude of Discus fanciers.

The end result is that nobody in the UK has heard of any side affects associated with Panacur liquid...the two leading fish vetinarians in the UK were spoken to by my vet and neither could confirm any side affects nor questioned the dosage/application or prescription. Basically my vet was NOT liable.

The only person (who i spoke to) world wide who had any sort of experience with Panacur liquid were Ron and Robyn Futtrell. I discussed the case in some detail with Robyn who had only experienced a case whereby the med was added to food and the fish obviously died.

I post this now as a warning to anybody administering Panacur liquid Fenbendazole 10% at a dosage of 1ml per 50l of water.....not enough is known about it's use in fish..you could end up with Discus Armageddon like me!!

Anyway...as you can imagine, i had a pretty horrific Xmas and New Year and am now busy preparing my tank for another 8 Discus that i hope to purchase in the next couple of months.

Hope you found the above info interesting and perhaps useful as well.

Thanks and best regards,

Martin[/QUOTE]

[fisher]

sorry for my bad english ....... i am new member .... keeping discus fish for 14 years ... I've used flubendazole for many years with alot of success and some Failure but in the end i arrived to ideal treatment with no side effect as Follows 1- dosage is 2mg/liter flubendazole dissolved in aceton 2- the tank must be established and contain an educated number of beneficial bacteria 3- tank not crowded 4- good filter preferd spong filter and strong air stone in the tank and ph around 6 with a high quality water 5- most important things is not over feeding ..... prefered reduce food Quantity and feeding number ................................our target is reduce Harmful bacteria in tank for protect fish swim blooder from ifected . if fish infected and lay on the bottom of the tank it easly recover with 3 golden rols 1- transfer the fish to another established tank with low water levle no haighr then fish hight " in case headstanding " 2- add 3% salt and 15 g apsom salt with 34 c 3- stop feeding . fish will recover in 3 to 4 days .
best Regards

[fisher]

Ideal

[DiscusDrew]

So its been a while since Ive given my two cents in the disease section but this is an issue still active today and with little notation of side effect even though I still believe there to be an underlying issue that we are not seeing... Here is my reasoning... And if you see a pattern PLEASE feel free to pop it out. And please, try to speak from experience on this issue as it is a serious one as our quantity and availability of GOOD medications seems to diminish rapidly in the states.

Inkmker 10% flubendazole. Controlled (as much as possible in aquaria with seperate systems) experiment done on 4 tanks of adult breeding fish, approximately 30 breeders in total.

DOSE USED ON EACH TANK: 3 days on with 50% water changes each day replacing what was lost to water change, then 4 days large water changes in good clean water. This process repeated 3 times for a total of 21 day treatment. Dosed slightly under 1/4 tsp per 20 gallons. I mix the Flub with about 1/4 by volume alcohol then SLOWLY release it into the water column.

TANK 1: 45 TDS Reconstituted RO, tank Ph 7.8, temp 82.... Three weeks of successful treatment, no tail standing, even spawning occured on multiple occassions during treatment. Perfect treatment. By scope clean after treatment, and mostly preventative for this tank, all fish were eating, newer batch of fish, no adverse reactions. Med was basically used to clean them out before breeding.

TANK 2: 45 TDS Reconstituted RO, tank Ph 7.8, temp 82.... TWO weeks of successful treatment, after the first dose all is normal, several fish that I knew to have pathogen issues begin to recover very quickly. SECOND DOSE, fish make it through the dosing just fine.... then after the first 100% change to put them back into RO water the next morning our tail standing begins to show... Of 8 adults in this tank, 2 are effected and they seem the healthier of the original fish, not the ones more effected by pathogens. Fish are lazy, trying hard, and as Ive seen this side effect before I have a good idea of how to pull the fish through the treatment, what I do is put them in clean water, and use SALT, seems to speeden the recovery and Ive had several cases where the fish were back up and swimming within about a week and a half.

TANK 3: 155 TDS Aged Tap, Ph 8.2, temp 82.... NO SIDE EFFECTS NOTED THROUGH ENTIRE TREATMENT AND COMPLETELY CLEANED OUT.

TANK 4: 155 TDS Aged Tap, Ph 8.2, temp 82.... NO SIDE EFFECTS NOTED THROUGH ENTIRE TREATMENT AND COMPLETELY CLEANED OUT.

From my experience before this I can leave a few notes on the subject, first, I agree with a post I saw a long time ago on this, it seems to be more prevalent in mid range sized fish, juvies before spawning age but after fry age. Also, Ive NEVER had side effects come up in aged tap water, ONLY in reconstituted RO water. In my experiment, tank 1 and 2 were treated identically and are pooled from the same water source with the same schedules for EVERYTHING... So why a difference there? I couldnt tell you. I like what I have read previously about possible gas in the intestinal lines, and with Epsom Salt showing a difference in recovery from this side effect I truly feel it may be a digestive issue.

But what is the cause? And what is the Cure? Because honestly this medication is well, pretty tough to beet on effectiveness if done correctly. But I have seen these side effects over the years. Oh and one last note, fish that are NOT eating seem to potentially be far more effected by percentage, be it not eating from spawning or whatever the case may be.

All the best and hope this helps continue this discussion....

[100fuegos]

(...)

When you say SALT to recover the affected fish you mean Epson Salt or Table / Marine Salt (NaCl).

My limmited experience with Flubendazole comes from New Wormer Plus, with absolutely no side effect on three to five month old fry affected by capillaria. They pulled through the treatment quie nicely.

Stright tap water filtered through a seven stage HMA filter heated to 28ºC, PH 8.1 and super hard water, TDS over 600 anytime.

[timmy82]

I have just had my best Penang start head standing I haven't used Flubendazole on any of my Discus, I noticed him getting a bit funny the a few days before so gave them some good cleans and water changes and still head standing. I use Microbe-lift gram negative gram positive for 24 hrs and thought things may of improved. Still head standing and notice some white poo moved into warmer tank and dosed with Prozi. I do 7 on 7 off with work so I left extra filtration and the water changes turned up with the auto water as the missus isn't right up to speed with the Discus while i'm away. When I get home I will see how he is and maybe run a course of Metro.
I've found Microbe-lift products to be good and straight to the point with what they are and contain. We have problems trying to get the right stuff hear in Australia and finding Microbe-lift has helped especially with the prozi powder, the metro powder and the gram + gram - works a treat.
Any input on the above would be appreciated, I have had someone think a inner ear infection causes the head standing also I just want to get him right and breed from him as he pretty much a AAA Discus till now.

[fisutar]

I have not discus but very many other tropical fish species. I have wormed my fish with Camacell wormer (HS aqua) which have active agents/pill:

12,5 mg diflubentsuroni, 341 mg pyrantelitartraatti, 17,6 mg flubendatzole. One pill to 50 liter water.

I have many catfish and loachess which are scaless ja sensitivy fish. I have also angelfish, gouramies and so on. I have also very many little catfish babies. I have not had any broblems, but....

I had two adult hoplo Cats (Megalechis personata). When Camacell had been in tank few days, my hoplos behaved very abnormal. Male was whitish colour, was very angry and afraid. I swam against tank glassees. I breathed very fast and strong. It try to escape from tank. Balance is also gone, it is up side down or other side. Then fish must swim, it is very had, balance is gone and after that heart beats very fast. Two days later the female do the same. Naturally they have not apetite.

I take they hostipal tank to fresh water and put Sera Baktopur direkt. They was one week very bad condition but they became clear.

All other fish in Camacell -tank was okay. Water was okay. When I put Camacell medicine to tank I saw my hoplo cats to go eat Camacell. Latter I have put dissolve Camacell before I put them tank.

Later I had to worm my fish and same story. But I lost my male hoplo fish.

I sweared that I do no worm tank where is my hoplo cats, but I saw camallanus worms in my angelfish tank and I must worm the whole tank. I had also 4 little hoplos also in same tank. I do not dared use Sera Nematol because there is caution "may induce problems with scaless fish". So I must use Camacell two 5 days cure. I live in country where is not levamisole and so on....

I do not overdose, I change water before and after, but now big female is bad condition (balance is gone, it is up side down or other side). One small hoplo to it sometimes and it balance is some times gone.

Now they all is hospital tank and never Camacell or wormer to them.

Is some fish species allergy to flubendazole or they have gene mutation whish cause that that they have enzyme that break down flubendazole? Camacell have also other active agents than flubendazole. It have also about three times more flubendazole than Kusuri wormer plus.

[arman]

hey everybody.
im abit confused about dosage and duration of treatment.
can somebody say the recommended dose of drug/L of water?and ofc the days.
thanks.

[Tankster]

I just want to make a couple points regarding flubenadazole and its growing successful use.

The post below, made in August 2010, quotes what is now outdated information regarding dosage and was actually written by a Dr. in Missouri that can supply 10% Flubendazole for aquarium use. That article was written first for 5% Flu powder and we have since learned that even that dosage was twice the required amount. All the other info. in that article (except dosage) is still pertinent and for that reason is still on the seller's website. The current recommended dosage for 10% powder is
1/8Tsp (US) per 10gal.

I frequently come to SD, not only because I have raised Discus in the past and will in the future, but my body of knowledge for Angelfish (and fishkeeping generally) is enhanced by the knowledge shared on this forum. Perhaps the knowledge can flow both ways.

Many breeders of Angelfish have increasingly used Flubenadazole with good success when treating for internal and external parasite including flukes, tapeworms, etc. with few adverse effects. The most common adverse effect is shedding of slime coat caused by overdose and/or insufficient mixing into solution with tank water. To my knowledge no head or tail standing has been reported in Angelfish. The drug also has benefits in that it does not harm the biological filter.

I have used on breeding Angels with no adverse effect upon spawning, in fact spawning generally increases. I regularly use as a preventative on nickel to quarter size juvenile Angels to assure they are "clean" prior to sale, with excellent results.


I have found a few important keys to safely and effectively administer Flubendazole:

1) mix 4 parts powder with 1 part Vodka or Scotch (I'm serious) and perhaps a ml (or two) of tank water to make a slurry. The spirits act as a solvent and will greatly enhance the drug's ability to go into solution with the tank water;

2) add the slurry very gradually to the tank water, perhaps 1/2ml at a time. What you're looking for is to gradually create the resultant "fog" in the tank. Adding rapidly, or when not mixed well, is when burns occur and the slime coat sheds - especially when a curious fish swims into a heavy dose. The initial fog created once the full dose is in will dissipate over several hours - at 12 hours the water is only slightly hazy; &

3) The treatment only needs to be administered for 72hrs.. Then a water change should be done and 48hrs observation. If heavy fluke infestation or hexamita, additional treatments may be required. If caught early, most parasites are cleared after 72hrs with tapeworms and some others obviously expelled after 24 hrs.

Note: Flubendazole is absorbed into the tissues, so when properly put into solution (as noted in 1 and 2) it can be more effective without ill effects. Please let me know if the above helps to successfully treat our treasured Discus

.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Glad you dug this up Greg, thanks. I am due a worming/preventive medication treatment. For those wondering where to obtain this drug, I got mine here in the past with good results. http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

[arman]

thanks Dear kraig& Greg.
by theway if there was no Flubendazole available what can i do?
My experience:
albendazole=bad Side effects...Metro=not effective in 3 fish tx series..
...
any idea?

[100fuegos]

Search for kusuri wormer plus. UK based company but they ship worldwide