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Thread: Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

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    Registered Member allan_mark76's Avatar
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    Default Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Hello Disus Fans I was just wondering what was the difference between a Permeate and Booster Pump for a RO UNIT. I'm interested in in purchasing either one of these two and was wondering what your experiences were between the two. Also the noise levels make a difference. I know the booster pump requires an outlet, but is it noisy at all. Can you please describe the noise that it puts out. Sorry the ol' lady is noise sensitive. Also how does these products affect the life of your membranes and overall output of Ro water versus waste water. I'm looking to increase production while yet decrease the amount of waste water that comes out. So if you have any ideas about these two your help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks.

    A- ;D

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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    RandalB would be a good person to ask about that one.

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    Registered Member allan_mark76's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Randal if you are out there please help.......

    If there is anybody else out there who can help out please type away... I'm sure theres some people here on the boards that run RO units and have either or of the above.

    Thanks.

    A- ;D

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    Registered Member Ardan's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Hi,
    i have a booster pump that I purchased from Randall. it uses electricity to boost the water pressure to 100 psi going into the RO unit. It really speeds up the RO process and reduces waste water.
    A permeate pump (as I understand it) uses the waste water pressure from the RO unit to increase the pressure going into an RO unit through the use of a diaphragm. It uses no electricity, but I don't believe is as efficient or as high of a pressure.

    I really like my Booster pump!
    hth

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    Registered Member allan_mark76's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Ardan...THANKS BRO ! ! ! One quick question though....as a measurement of noise what would you rate the noise level 0(lowest) to 10(highest)??? ??? Also a description of the noise would really help. The reason why I ask is because the outlet for the RO unit is located close to the bedroom...the noise situation is a really bad problem between my lady and all and the last thing I want to do is piss her off even more....

    Thanks.

    A-

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    Registered Member Ardan's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    HI,
    The booster pump does have a small pulsating noise, I only run mine on a timer during the day for 4 to 6 hrs, depending on how much I need.
    1 to 10 scale, its not bad imo ( to me anyway). A little Louder than most air pumps, but quieter than the furnace. If its mounted securely on the rubber feet it helps a lot too. Make sure the hoses that are hooked to it do not vibrate against anything either.
    Treat your lady well, it will help make the noise seem less 8)

    hth

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    Registered Member allan_mark76's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Ardan did you notice a significant increase in production of RO water and a decrease in waste water with the booster pump??? ??? As of now it takes approximately 20hrs to produce 60 gallons of ro water for my storage containers.

    Thanks.

    A- ;D

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    Registered Member RandalB's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Actually,
    a Permiate pump does not increase the feed pressure at all. It decreases the back pressure against the membrane in Pressure tank systems by actually pumping the product water into the storage tank. For open (55 gallon drum, Rubbermaid container, etc) water storage systems it's a waste of money. In those types it doesn't do anything.

    This is a perfect example of a product that is hyped by online sellers as a "Miracle" product that will do everything but your water changes for you if you buy it. I've seen claims of 50% reduction in waste, 400% increase in production, etc in an effort to sell these things to people who don't need them. If you have a pressure tank system, it will increase the tank pressure to the same as the feed pressure which is nice and will improve performance to the same as an open system.

    They are an Item I don't normally stock (again, most people I deal with don't need them) but I can order. They Go for $45.00 w/ mounting bracket.

    The booster pump on the other hand is almost a mandatory accessory if your water pressure is below 45 PSI or drops below 50F. At these feed water conditions, the RO unit is very inefficient and will not perform well.

    As far as the positive effects on performance IME, the pressure increase will on the average give a 20-40% improvement over membrane rating.

    HTH,
    RandalB

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    Registered Member Ardan's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Yes , I noticed a very significant increase in output, and speed, and a decrease in waste water.

    I am very happy with the booster pump I bought from Randal!! 8) 8)
    I have a 50gallon / day RO membrane. I make about 12 to 15 gallons RO water in about 4 hours (depends on how new my prefilters are and how clean they are). It used to take 6 hours for that amount.

    hth

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    Registered Member Carol_Roberts's Avatar
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    Default Re:Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    I love my booster pump from Randal. You will too! I can fill my barrel in a few hours instead of all day and not run the well dry either ;D

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    Default Re: Booster Pump VS. Permeate Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by RandalB View Post
    Actually,
    a Permiate pump does not increase the feed pressure at all. It decreases the back pressure against the membrane in Pressure tank systems by actually pumping the product water into the storage tank. For open (55 gallon drum, Rubbermaid container, etc) water storage systems it's a waste of money. In those types it doesn't do anything.

    This is a perfect example of a product that is hyped by online sellers as a "Miracle" product that will do everything but your water changes for you if you buy it. I've seen claims of 50% reduction in waste, 400% increase in production, etc in an effort to sell these things to people who don't need them. If you have a pressure tank system, it will increase the tank pressure to the same as the feed pressure which is nice and will improve performance to the same as an open system.

    They are an Item I don't normally stock (again, most people I deal with don't need them) but I can order. They Go for $45.00 w/ mounting bracket.

    The booster pump on the other hand is almost a mandatory accessory if your water pressure is below 45 PSI or drops below 50F. At these feed water conditions, the RO unit is very inefficient and will not perform well.

    As far as the positive effects on performance IME, the pressure increase will on the average give a 20-40% improvement over membrane rating.

    HTH,
    RandalB
    (preamble)
    Hello all. I understand that this is an ancient post. However this technology is still around without any changes - thus please excuse me for necroing this thread.
    (/preamble)

    Dear Randal. I am sorry, but I deeply disagree with some of the points what you have stated here about premeate pumps, specifically:
    "a Permiate pump does not increase the feed pressure at all" - agreed, premeate pump does not increase efficiency of pre-osmosis filters, but does influence the osmosis stage.

    "It decreases the back pressure against the membrane in Pressure tank" - partially agreed, as its not just in "Pressure tank", but in whole premeate (filtered water) line. One does not need tank, but if one has it - it will keep constant pressure, which is different from all systems with mechanical ASO valve, boosted or not, whose waste water will increase proportionally to tank fullness. Even with no tank, premeate pump will increase filtered water output whilst decreasing waste water output as its membrane adds resistance to waste water pipe and converts it into pressure behind filtered water line.

    "For open (55 gallon drum, Rubbermaid container, etc) water storage systems it's a waste of money. In those types it doesn't do anything." this is incorrect as stated above. Please do your own tests. It will decrease fill time while decreasing wasted output as well and boosting membrane performance compared to non-boosted systems. But the biggest advantage is, of course, for tank systems with mechanical ASO valve, as those are especially inefficient with nearly full tank.

    "I've seen claims of 50% reduction in waste, 400% increase in production, etc" my measurements show 50% (2x) reduction of waste water when filling the tank and 200% (2x) increase in filtered water flow speed. I can imagine less drastic decrease of waste water when running permanently open, yet because the pump is not running selectively or with bypasses, I can imagine it will be there.

    "sell these things to people who don't need them" IMHO its standard ASO valve is what people dont need, especially when there is also no booster pump. This device is perfect for those who don't want electronical parts, don't want to invest into much more expensive directflow membranes or more complex booster pumps with electronic drain control, and still have very good filtering results. For example, when they use the system to process drinking water only in regular household.

    This video explains the pump perfectly: https://vimeo.com/132833651
    (disclaimer: I am not working for us water systems, I am not working for any water company, in fact I am not even from US.)

    Peace.

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