HEATERS IN A COLD BASEMENT

[DREW]

I'm thinking of moving some discus to the basement. The problem is I live in MN in a 1927 old house that doesn't have heat in the basement and in the Winter the basement gets around 50 degrees. I have to be cost efficient so sticking a bunch of heaters down there will probably not go over well with the girlfriend. What I was thinking was buying high wattage heaters or two heaters and using them to keep the heat up. Will I run into problems with the heaters malfunctioning? The trial tank I'm moving down there will be a 55gallon tank..The reason I'm moving some tanks down there is because of the water source and the drains that are built down there.

Thanks

Drew

[henryD]

I live in the Northeast and have my fish out in the garage. It gets pretty cold here but there is a number of things you could do to help preserve the heat. If you are afraid of heater malfunction you may want to consider 2 150 watt heater instead of just 1 300 watt heater.

The other things you can do is...

I have also added some styrofoam to the bottom and side of the tanks.

Get a cover for the tank will also help prevent any heat loss.

Last thing is a I would consider buying some plastic sheet and fence off the area that the tanks are going to be in. Home depot sells large plastic sheets that can be hung from the ceiling. It works sort of along the line of a greenhouse where you trying to trap the heat and moister inside of that area.

HTH
Henry

Oh last thing. I would becareful and watch the humidity in that room. Make sure you don't have too much moisture or you will run into more problems in the future. Dehumidifer are cheap and a good solution.

[ronrca]

Drew,
A couple of things to consider!

First, it does not really matter on the number of heaters you get but the wattage required to keep the water at a constant temp therefore number of heaters doesnt really matter. I guess that you dont really want 10 100W heaters in one tank! Get 3 300W heaters for example!

Second, the less heaters you put in a tank, the more likely it is that you can fry or freeze your discus. If you were to get 10 100W heating and 2 or 3 fail, it will not impact the water temp if 1 300W out of 3 were if fail

Third, cost wise it does not matter much if you have 10 100W heaters or 3 300W heaters, you will need the same wattage to heat the water therefore cost for power will be about the same.

In your case, insulating 5 sides of the tanks using 1/2"+ styrofoam will really help. Tank covers, insulating pipes will also conserve heat. However, the best and perhaps most efficent way is to raise the ambient temperature. It may make more sense to insulate the basement or just the fish room in the basement which ever the case may be. Depending on the number of tanks and total wattage of heaters, it may be more cost efficient to buy a 1500W baseboard and heat the area in which your tanks are. If you basement has no rooms, I would recommend building or enclosing the section of the basement so you dont have to heat the whole basement rather only a section of the basement.

So. there may be a number of ways to go. Depends on how temporary or permament the move downstairs is! ;D

Ah yes! Henry brings up a great point, humidity! Get a dehumidifer. Not only will it help reduce humidity but also heat up the room. I didnt know that until I got my dehumidifier recently. When I keep the door close to the room all day, in the evening the temp is around 33C(91F). So, before getting all sort of heat in the tanks/room, try the dehumidifer out and see what happens.

Sorry! Edited and corrected to say DEhumidifier, not humidifer! :

[jeep]

What kind of heating/AC do you have. If it's forced air then I would imagine your heater is in the basement, in which case you could cut a hole and install a vent into the supply duct and force air warm air into the basement.

You could also do this if you have an old gravity furnace.

If your furnace is in the attic, then you could call a heating company and have them splice in a duct into the basement, using the space between the studs as the duct work.

I agree with Ron in that a humidifier will add heat to the environment, but be careful because the longer you have extremely humid air in the lower part of a house, the greater the risk is to start a mold problem.
Brian

[DarkDiscus]

Drew,

Did you consider getting a wood burning stove for your basement? Keep the room temperature higher and reduce the need for a ton of heaters. Plus it tends to dry out the air and keeps the humidity down a bit.

The drawback with using all the heaters is if you ever have a power outage, the tank temp will drop REALLY fast with ambient room temp that cold.

John

PS. I used to frequent an LFS in the basement of an old house where the heat was kept at 78 degrees - she saved a fortune in electricity, though it was pretty uncomfortable for the customers!

[jeep]

The wood burning stove idea is the best because not only will it heat the basement, but the heat will rise and reduce your overall heating cost for the rest of the house...

I bet you could buy a wood burning stove for about the same is it will to heat the tanks for an entire MN winter...

[lauris]

I have about 500 gallons in an unheated, 100 year old basement. My bill for minneapolis is about 150/month, probably half that is attributable to the fish tanks, maybe a little less. My basement isn't as cold as yours, are you sure its fifty? I have 1"styro under the bigger tanks but not around them--bulky and not that aesthetic. Before I did a lot of work, I'd check the temp and see how much difference you're working with. Also, its the heat loss from the area that is critical, once you get a couple tanks going, they are little heat sinks and will warm the room up what with the lights, etc. I would also look at whether there is a radiator you can turn on or a vent you can open. I am no engineer, but if you're under a heated space aren't you lowering your house heating bill if your dissipating tank heat up through the floor? I would at least tell my girlfriend that its an even tradeoff. If she grills you beyond that about your own dang electric bill I don't know that there is any help for you whatsoever. (that's a joke) If you can't close off a part of the basement then you might have more trouble, but I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised how much heat is retained and how economical (in the context of discus that is) it is to run a few tanks. If you have hot water heat, put the tanks near the boiler, some of them put off a lot of heat. I use normal wattage heaters and don't have any trouble keeping tanks at 84-90 as needed. The older houses are so well-ventilated that humidity shouldn't be much of a problem, as long as you don't get dampness you can feel on the rafters i'd think you are okay. In fact, the winter air quality will probably be improved by the warmth and moisture from a few tanks.

[DREW]

You have come up with some good ideas. I have the original oil burning boiler. Unfortunatly it doesn't give off much heat in the basement. I can close off a room down there to conserve heat. I want to finish off the basement but there are small leaks I'm trying to take care off in two corners. I just bought the house last August and its been one project or another. I have selfish reasons to work on the basement but there are more important projects to get to first. The fish I want to move down there are my first discus I've had in years and I bought them from cary. A pair of pretty nice melons that are getting active. I don't want to lose them to a faulty heater.

Thanks again

Drew

[Denny]

The most economical way in the long run is to insulate the basement. you do not have to insulate the walls at first, but the pockets in the ceiling between the floor joists will lose alot of heat and if insulated, will keep the basement warmer and also reduce your heat bills.

Also, I would have a few radiation units installed in the basement. A house that age usually had the cast iron radiators and you can find them for nothing if you check around with plumbing shops that take them out when heating systems are updated. they are heavy to move and people will give them to you if you haul them away.As lauris said, tell your girlfriend that heating and insulating the basement will make the main level floors warmer and more comfortable, which will allow you to lower the thermostat and save energy.

[Rick_May]

If it were me, I'd section off the area that I needed for the fish room build walls, insulate them and install electric basebord heaters. its cheaper to heat air with a to 80 from 50 then it is to heat water from 50 to 80. Additionaly I'd insulate three sides plus the bottom of every tank. I'd advise useing green board for the walls as its better in a damp enviroment.

[DarkDiscus]

I like Rick's idea, too, but then it is 100% imperative to have a generator on hand. Because if you lose power in the middle of the winter it won't take long at all for the cold to really make a difference!

John

PS. But then again once I have my own home there is NO way I would go without having a generator anyway!

[henryD]

If you can't afford a generator like me I would recommend getting one of those propane space heaters. Just in case....