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Thread: overdriven flourescent lights

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    Default overdriven flourescent lights

    I have been reading about overdriven flourescents for a planted tank. Does anyone have any expericence doing this. I have a 55 gallon tank with room for two 48 bulbs .
    would like to overdrive with an additional electric ballast.
    what do you think
    cod

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    Registered Member RandalB's Avatar
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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Works like a charm. I have a Planted 35 Hex and a 29 both are lit with overdriven 15 watt tubes (2x on the Hex, 4x on the 29) and my plants grow great. Talk to Paulio here he knows all about overdriving.

    I use GE/Magnatec ballasts and Fullham Workhorse ballasts (the better of the two) both are in the $20-30 range.


    RandalB

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    Registered Member ronrca's Avatar
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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights


    Here are some links from the past on Overdriving Fluorescents:

    http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...8211#msg118211

    http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...76606#msg76606

    http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...41074#msg41074

    I have my fluorescents overdriven for about 2-3 years now!

    HTH

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    thank you those links are just what I needed . the only thing i don't understand is the 2x 4x designations for the lightsl
    cod

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Ok, I read the links and see how you drive one bulb with a 2 bulb ballast. My question is, if you hook up a 40 watt ballast for a 48 inch tube to a 36 inch tube, are you still overdriving. I'm still confused on bulb ratings. I have tried to look at some of the manufacterers sites like GE and Phillips, but I haven't found a good article that has explained it all. Anybody know of some other links about flourescent lighting? Thanks, Paul.

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    Registered Member ronrca's Avatar
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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Basicly the wattage of the tube is determined by the characteristic of the chemicals inside the tube. The longer the tube, the more wattage is required to operate it at a given intensity! (Its kind of similar to pumping water. If you have 100' of 1" pipe, you will need a larger pump to get a good flow rate compared to having 10' of pipe!)

    Ballasts are designed to limit the wattage to the tube for efficiancy. The ballast is like a ball valve that restricts the power to it like turning the ball valve to half closed to limit the water flow. By using an electronic 48" tube ballast with 36" tubes, yes, you will be overdriving it slightly because the ballast for the 48" is allowing more wattage than one that is used for 36" tubes. So, the wattage that is being supplied to the 36" tube is the same as for the 48".

    if you hook up a 40 watt ballast for a 48 inch tube to a 36 inch tube, are you still overdriving.
    Yes! I believe that a 36" tube is rated at 32W. You will be now running these 36" tubes at 40W instead of 32W. The ballast can not tell if the tube is 48" or 36" or 12"! It just supplies power like a pump would (pump doesnt know if you have 100' of pipe or 10' of pipe, it just pumps the water)

    HTH

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Ok..... The #'s you want to look at are NOT the wattages involved. You want to look at current out of the ballast VS current needed to fire the bulb. This get extra tricky with 36" bulbs. The main reason you see the T8 ballast used is because they were the first true electronic ballast you could grab at the local hardware store cheaply. Now the Home Depot in my area has true electronic ballasts for all sorts of applications. As far as bulbs are concerned it is easier to OD T8's because they require less current to fire than T12's do (T8=8/10 of an inch and T12=12/10 of an inch) True T8 bulbs require about 265 mah where "false" T8's (bulbs that meet the size but NOT the actual power consumption) and T12's rewuire nearly 500 mah to fire up. For example if you buy an electronic ballast designed to run four T12 48" 40 watt bulbs and instead run four T8 48" 32 watt bulbs the difference is not pushing an extra 8 watts into each bulb but pushing nearly 2X the current into each bulb. I hope this is making sense? Hmmmm. I need to do a real write up on this one eh?
    Now about the "Tricky" T8 bulbs. A 36" 30 watt T8 is only a T8 in size not function. Same goes for 48" 36 watt bulbs. These bulbs perform the same as the T12's. True T8 265 mah bulbs are as follows.
    T8 24" 17 watt
    T8 36" 25 watt
    T8 48" 32 watt
    I hope this isnt just rambling and is helpfull. A more complete write up coming soon.

    Paul

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    Registered Member ronrca's Avatar
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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    LOL! Paul! You lost me!

    Im not quite sure if Im following you here! I realize that your talking about current to fire up the tube but isnt 'running' current going to be different than 'starting' current (its almost like starting a cold car compared to a warm car. The draw on the battery will be much higher in a cold car)? Once the tube is started and on, it heats up which means the current should start dropping off again.

    What I think you are refering to is that there are certain tubes that take less current to start. However, back to the ballast, it doesnt really care what is connected. The ballast will allow the tube to draw as much as it is designed for except that the ballast has a limiting factor. By connecting a 4 lamp ballast to 1 lamp, you are 'bypassing' this limiting factor and allowing the tube to draw as much power as it can.

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Let's keep the subject going until we get it. Some times it takes me longer than others. I will hit up some of the engineers here at work and see if I can find an expert. The last 2 posts definetly helped. Thanks Paul and Ronca. Paul.

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Ok, just some ball park #'s here to make it easy to understand.
    T8 bulbs run at 200+mah
    T12 bulbs run at 400+mah
    This is what they need to run they way the a made to. Give light, save energy etc.
    Respective ballasts are made to supply this current to each channel out. So if you run two outputs from a T8 ballst into a T12 bulb you wont be overdriving that bulb much if at all. Then if you run two channels from T12 ballst into a T8 bulb you would then be overdriving the bulb several times over.
    Is my thinking here flawed? It makes sense to me. I admitt I am not an electrician or engineer so take it for what its worth.

    Paul

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Paulio,
    This whole thingis killing me. I am am Electronic Technician with 20 years experience, and the lights are still mysterious.

    I have searched a bunch, and I am still not able to find a sight that desrcibes exactly, in engineering terms the output of a ballast and the impedance of different tubes.

    The info that you give is very intersting. Do you have any links to more info on this? Thanks, Paul.

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    you can overdrive as much as 3x or 4x but that's a recipe for fire.
    and when your overing driving by 2x or higher ur not really pushing like let saying ur using a 40 watt it wont go up to 80 but rather 60 but yeah i think everyone noes dat

    lates

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    Ok, still looking for more info, I found a grat thread over on garden web under the Growing under lights section. If you wade to the bottom, it has some very clear diagrams of doing the modifications to different typs of fixtures. There is also a lot of good discussion. The search continues.... Paul.

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...472000.html?49

    Well I didn't get the link right, but you can copy and paste. Paul.

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    Registered Member ronrca's Avatar
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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights

    [quote author=Paulio link=board=19;threadid=14624;start=0#msg155500 date=1072111733]
    Ok, just some ball park #'s here to make it easy to understand.
    T8 bulbs run at 200+mah
    T12 bulbs run at 400+mah
    This is what they need to run they way the a made to. Give light, save energy etc.
    Respective ballasts are made to supply this current to each channel out. So if you run two outputs from a T8 ballst into a T12 bulb you wont be overdriving that bulb much if at all. Then if you run two channels from T12 ballst into a T8 bulb you would then be overdriving the bulb several times over.
    Is my thinking here flawed? It makes sense to me. I admitt I am not an electrician or engineer so take it for what its worth.

    Paul
    [/quote]

    Ok Paul! I understand now. Im not use to seeing mA. 32W divided by 120V is .267A!
    The ballast will limit the current to the lamp to only allow 32W or .267A to the lamp. The thought behind overdriving is allowing the lamp to draw more power by connecting 2 lamp wires to 1 lamp allowing .534A to the lamp. Your thought on the 2 different lamps is correct except for one thing to remember. The lamp will only draw as much power as it can and no more. Similar to a motor. If your motor will only draw 5A max, thats it.

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    Default Re:overdriven flourescent lights


    Your thought on the 2 different lamps is correct except for one thing to remember. The lamp will only draw as much power as it can and no more. Similar to a motor. If your motor will only draw 5A max, thats it.
    Excellent point! If you push too much your ballast will probably run VERY hot. More than likey damaging it in the long run. I will say though that running T8's overdriven 1 time (twice the average operating current) my bulbs last longer! It takes twice as long for any blackening to show at the ends of the bulbs. Maybe is has something to do with cycling or something? I am not educated enough there to say for certain. Here are a couple links to articles on the IceCap site. Pretty interesting and probably explains the idea better than I have or can. And no you dont need a $175 ballast to make the principle work for you.

    http://www.icecapinc.com/rev1.htm <-overdriving regular T12's

    http://www.icecapinc.com/rev2.htm <-overdriving smaller T8's

    Paul

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