? for hobbyists with Curipera

I'm thinking about getting some Curipera from Below Water and I know that there are a number of hobbyists who have these fish from last year. How long did it take for them to color up? What do you think of these discus after having them for a year or so? It would also be great if you could post some recent pics of your Curipera.

Thanks in advance.

Peter

[Tristanyyz]

This is a curipera I bought from Oliver in May. This picture was taken in the summer. I should take some new pictures, as he is a deep rich red now.

I got two new curipera from Oliver earlier this week, and one is already getting very very red.
M

[CARY_GLdiscus]

SORRY THEY DO NOT BREED TRUE!

AND WAY OVER PRICED! IMO

[CARY_GLdiscus]

No Harm Ment Jimmy,
I love You man

I just find it very very hard to believe HOW COULD IT?

[brewmaster15]

Jimmy,
what feature is it that you are referring to..The markings around the eye?

I really am not qualified to say whether this fish will breed true or not , I haven't bred it and don't know anyone with fry that have grown to adulthood yet. I am really waiting to hear from Dennis Hardinberg and his experience... His fry should be getting good size now,

My only thoughts are The extent of red coloration appears Variable on the 3 I have been watching for Francisco Borrero. 1 of them is a rich red color... another is more of a patchy red, and the 3rd looks rather drab. I realize that even in domestic fish there is this kind of coloration variable.. I will say that the red one is very stunning.

One thing I have noted with regards to pics posted over the last year is some of the fish appear to have striated patterns on the bodies, like the one posted by Tristanyyz..Michael. None of the 3 I have show this pattern to any extend.

I do think it all comes down to what you consider breeding true. So I guess the question is what features woul anyone expect to breed true on this fish?

-al

[derrickTC]

You sound defensive there Jimmy, Are you having second thoughts about, if you have been ripped off? If you are happy and can afford it why do you care, what others think? you need no justification for others or yourself? I personally think they are not that special, then again many here wouldn't think 60k for a 22year old TR isn't either. but I would have no second thoughts in writting a check for that. So if you are happy that is what matters.
As far as breeding true, if I cross two heckles would I expect to get a brown? if you are talking about color variation which I think you are, as you have referenced RSG's, all offsprings should be as red as the parent, if you think the fish is special. Otherwise there is no gene isolation of the red kind. They are just browns with a few redder fish, like the greens with some with lots of spots. Pointing out the location to justify the price is just a scam, to sell a marked up merchandise. kinda like what they do in saks? it's marketing nothing wrong with that.

[brewmaster15]

Jimmy,
Do you have the Book Aqualog--South American cichlids IV... by Gobel and Mayland. If you do take a look at page 166--167. Theres a beautiful fish on plate s90118-4,... A fish identified as a Brazil wild "rio Madeira. It shows that distint Blue eye loop very clearly. The Plate next to it , s90119-4 shows the short eye bar, and less of a loop..it also is identified as Rio Madeira....F1

Additionallly,take a look at pages 56-68, theres some really beautiful wild browns, and "alencers/Alenquers" Many of which look much like "curiperas".. I can see where some doubt comes from after looking at these pics.

I am not saying that this is what Curipera's are .. I am just expressing my feelings that after looking thru The Aqualog Book I really don't think that Eye loop is that special in the wild browns/reds. But I am also one those one that pretty much think you have heckels as one species, and wild greens, browns, and blues as another.... and divisions smaller than that are hard to accept as accurate....Thats just the biologist in me though.

I hope that soon with all the Curiperas bought over the last year that we have some Fry grown out that will answer the breeding true question.. for now I think its up in the air for lack of better evidence, or until someone comes forward that has these fry.

JMO,
al

[Tristanyyz]

Upper Canada Discus.

He Brings up a good question concerning the adaptability, specifically of Curipera, as it relates to water parameters and ease of breeding. Along with this, "breeding true". I really am not experienced at all when it comes to discus, but I like to think I am learning. "Breeding True" as implied by the phrase, means to me that they breed true, or you put two curipera together, and you dont get a pigeon blood (as an extreme example) or a Scotts!

I guess what this implies to me, is that there is no cross-breeding going on, in the case of curipera, that they are geographically isolated, and are not in one of those areas of the amazon that tends to flood, where tributaries mix together, and you get some alley cat heckels, and common Madeiras, mixing up in the gene pool of our pristine curipera. (i am joking, but you get my point).

Regardless, why is it always related to price? I got a bulldog puppy recently, and get asked that question all the time, "How much did you pay?" My dog is a pure breed. It breeds true. He is a dog. If I chose to breed him with another bulldog, I wont get a poodle. My bulldog is my buddy, so are my fish. Not an experiment.

I happened upon Curipera quite honestly. I loved the look of the wilds that Samson shows on his site universaldiscus.com. I especially loved the one labelled Rio Ica. With the center band, intense dark rim around the fins, and bright blue straitions, and a nice golden/reddish tone to the body. About a week before I went to see Oliver, I went to Jimmy's place. He introduced me to my first wilds. Firstly two madeira, which are now in my tank. And his collection of amazing Curipera. I told him about my wanting to get a Rio Ica, and he told me that its a false name, and the fish was really Nuovo Olinda, and he showed me his...which was amazing. To make a long story short, the characteristics I appreciated in the 'Ica' I found to be intesified in curipera. I went to Oliver, and picked out two curipera, a novo olinda, an inanu, and a whole bunch of Mari Mari Heckels. (drove home to Toronto, and dumped them in my tank).

I picked out my first curipera. The picture at the top of this discussion. And I now realize how different it looks to all the other curipera I have seen. I love those blue striations above the eye and across the top of the fish. But this fish has blue striations that are not present on my other three. One of my curipera is not that good looking, but real friendly, and has a great personality. I am hoping that this one may be a great breeder one day. The curipera i have with the striations doesnt have really red eyes. But the two new ones do, one is getting really red, and the other is still a bit dull, but golden.

I dont know how far you can take things scientifically, so far away from the source. This is a great hobby, Discus. As many that have bias against wilds, within the "wild" community, there is another small faction that like curipera. What each of these people get out of their hobby is satisfaction derived from a variety of interests. Some, geographical, some because of their characteristics, some because of the price tag, i suppose...

So Peter to get back to your original post, if you like the look of the fish then get it. You gotta act fast tho, I dont think Oliver gets too many per season, and he gets the most from what I can see. A few of us have curipera. I know from my experience it took about 6 months for my first two to fully colour up. You asked what I think of them, I have had two since May, and just got two more last week, and I am very happy with them. I am also extremely happy with my Mari Mari Heckels, that i bought from oliver for $40 each, around 4 inches, and now are some of the biggest fish i have!

If you are unsure Peter, why dont you get a bunch of the small B quality Curipera that Oliver has. They are less expensive, but you may end up with some really pretty fish.
M

[O]

Tristanyyz,

What do Mari Mari Heckels look like?

Thanks.
O

[Tristanyyz]

Madeira to the left, above, and right Mari Mari, and curipera bottom

[Tristanyyz]

;D ;D ;D

I love how passionate Discus people are. Maybe what makes curipera so red is the blood pressure of the keepers. (I am joking).

I do think it takes "guts" to post here, especially about something volatile like wilds, or worms, or do-it-yourself things...

I am a member to other forums aswell, and I find that enthusiasts of bottom-dwellers, and mean things like stingrays, are much more laid back :

Cary, I was wondering something. I have seen in other posts, postings that suggest that you may not be a fan of wilds. If you care to elaborate on that, and share your reasons why this is the case, it may make for more interesting discourse!

Cheers!
M

[brewmaster15]

Jimmy,
I hope you didn't take my comments as an attack.. They were not meant as one. They were meant to just add to the discussion. I think many here would be hard pressed to ID a brown discus let alone one of the red based varients ... to talk about what makes fish like "curipera" different .. you need to explain what makes a brown a brown.

You have a wealth of experiences to add to any discussion , but not everyone will share your point of view always. Disagreeing or offering other points of view can add to a discussion greatly. It doesn't always mean you are attacked when someone disagrees with you.

Just want you to understand this.

-al

[jim_shedden]

I know s__t about wilds even though I have 8 or I should say 28 of them. I have read everthing there is to read and I still consider myelf absolutely useless is giving advise about them but...................this is a great thread.

thanks : jim

Thank you everyone for your replies and insights.

Tristanyyz, I'm going to go ahead, take the plunge and contact Oliver after the holidays. I e-mailed him about a month ago so I do know the price of the fish.

Anyone else? How about some more pictures? ;D

Peter

[CARY_GLdiscus]

[quote author=Tristanyyz link=board=1;threadid=14976;start=15#msg155524 date=1072116519]
;D ;D ;D

Cary I was wondering something. I have seen in other posts, postings that suggest that you may not be a fan of wilds. If you care to elaborate on that, and share your reasons why this is the case, it may make for more interesting discourse!

Hello Tristanyyz,

Like I said I mean No harm. Am here to Help! Sorry But I think its wrong to mislead people into thinking that a red wild discus would breed true and that maybe the price is not so bad because of just that!
I know lots of breeders Too that are breeding this Discus and its not the same story Am Getting! Also You are right! Am not a wild Fan Or a discus Expert about wilds or domestic's. I learn more and more every day as I go! I only want the hobby to grow! As for Jimmy I allready said I love Him AND I DO! I just find some of the things he states alittle debateable. However If You seen His Discus You will Know that the man knows what he's doing.

Believe Me I will be the first to admit that there are 100 diffrent ways to RAISE,BREED+GROW DISCUS! IMO Anyone can do it if they try!
Its all in the care You give them. Many will fail but not because of what they did but only because of bad males! Now know one told me this!
It is my own conclusion. IME Most males are Mules! They will never spawn and produce fry. However I find that wild discus are more potent then Domestic Types are if you can get them to spawn. I guess thats one of the reasons patience! which I lack on.

Well to get back to the post! Yes its true I do not care to have wild Discus but thats just Me IME they are very slow growing. not much to look at and produce many more color morphs when breeding then the
Domestic strains do. Plan and simple I like Color and lots of it! I guess thats why I also like flowers and butterflies to! I also do not believe wild discus are needed in a breeding program if proper line breeding and outcrossing is done! most good breeders will tell you this when breeding wilds into domestics the set backs are much to far and long on color, Size + shape. well takecare hth.
Cary
MeRRY XMAS TO ALL AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT!
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