Central Wet-Dry or Drip System?

[CanadianGuy]

I'm debating between which setup I want to use. It will be for either 4 75s, 4 90s or some combination of the 2. Each tank will be drilled(tho I'm not sure if I'll drill the back or the bottom) I've been looking at past threads and can see pros and cons with each method.

If I go drip I will use sediment, carbon filters and a mixing valve before the drip emitters. This saves on the cost of building the filter itself, the pump and some plumbing. Cheap, and easy...not as good as true w/c, water isn't aged.

If I go central wet-dry I can run a heater in the sump, which makes things easier. Plus I save on utilities and water. More expensive initially, more complicated to set-up....Cheaper in the long run.

I just want to see what people are using and how it's working out for them.

Thanks!

almost forgot...this will be used as a growout setup.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Nothing beats a good wet /dry filter!


Thats How I grow the big Guys
hth
Cary Gld!

[CanadianGuy]

I've been up all night researching this too. I pretty much came to the same conclusion...and Cary must be doing something right!! You sure it's just the wet/dry filter??

Thanks Cary...again! hehe

[CARY_GLdiscus]

[tony1313]

Couldn't you go with both(wet/dry & drip)?
;D
Tony

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Cary, what are the pro's and con's of a drip system?? I thought you have a drip system for your setup?

-Ryan

[CARY_GLdiscus]

I do!

But I only use it when away! Depending How much $ you have and how much You want to waste a 1/2Gal Drip or even 1Gal A hour drip really does nothing! If You think about how fast the digestion works on a discus and how Much food we feed them Even a 2Gal drip a hour will not turn the water over fast enough.

To anyone thinking a drip will stop! W/Cs or Cleaning has another thing comeing. After about 10 days the bioload starts to build up while the drip is running. Soon after problems will
start to settle in like Bacteria and Toxins. Its kind of like a under gravel filter system. Some think you can add them to Your tank and never bother with them again! The truth is without
Getting Your Hose out and Your hands wet Both are a time Bomb waiting to Happen

hth
Takecare
Cary Gld!

[CanadianGuy]

I would assume that would go for a wet/dry filter as well...it seems that nothing with discus is set it and forget it!

Cary,
It seems that most breeders...yourself included...have their tanks drilled on the bottom and use stand pipes as overflows. Is there a reason for this? I can order the tanks with a hole drilled anywhere I want, and I have no personal preference. I just want whatever is best for the fish. The guy at the LFS said that when it comes to overflows it doesn't matter where they are located. I want to get your opinion before I rely on someone who just wants to sell tanks.

I've never had tanks drilled before. It's $25 to have them drilled at the factory....I can have it done locally for less than half of that...BUT at my own risk! Is it worth the extra money to just have the factory do it?

[JeffreyRichard]

Let's analyze the purpose of water changes and filters ...

In a closed system, fish produce toxins through respiration and defecation. Add to this the decay from excess food ...

The primary negative event is creation of ammonia as a result of respiration (the biggest contributor), defecation and left over food. Ammonia is an very toxic compound. Since respiration and defication are continuous processes, ammonia is constantly being added to the closed system.

Now factor in the "nitrogen cycle". Nitrifying Bacteria (nitrosomonas) utilize the ammonia and converts this to Nitrite. Nitrite is also toxic, but less so than Ammonia. Other nitrifying bacteria (nitrobacter) convert nitrite to nitrate ... which is less toxic BUT still harmful to fish in high amounts.

Keep in mind that other metabolic substances/compounds are added to the water by fish as a natural course.

So the problem becomes how does one get rid of the "bad stuff"?

Water changes are the most complete way to eliminate nitrogen and other DISSOLVED metabolics from the system. A drip system allows continuous replacement of water and is an effective way to remove dissolved substances that accumulate over time.

[quote author=CARY_GLdiscus link=board=1;threadid=17701;start=0#msg181946 date=1080927394]
To anyone thinking a drip will stop! W/Cs or Cleaning has another thing comeing. After about 10 days the bioload starts to build up while the drip is running. Soon after problems will start to settle in like Bacteria and Toxins. Its kind of like a under gravel filter system. Some think you can add them to Your tank and never bother with them again! The truth is without Getting Your Hose out and Your hands wet Both are a time Bomb waiting to HappenTakecare
Cary Gld!
[/quote]

I agree with Cary's point ... to a point. A drp system HELPS extend the time between tank cleanings ... a good drip flow will minimize the dissolved substances in the water, but will NOT remove new sources of decay et al (such as left over food). That is why you need to "clean" tanks regularly. Now, I run a drip on my tanks every other day, and run about 100% the volume of each tank through the drip. I can go a week without a good cleaning on my tanks (though my breeders and heavily stocked tanks get cleanings more frequently). So, if you want to minimize water change effort and extend time between cleanings, a drip system is great.

Now, unless you're running a constant drip, you need biological or chemical filters to minimize the real toxic ammonia and nitrite. I use sponge filters ... they provide enough surface area to maintain adequate bacteria load to filter my tanks (at least it appears so ... never measured it???). A wet/dry is a tremendous nitrifying filter ... most are designed with tremendous surface area for bacteria culturing and integrates high levels of oxygen into the filter ... necessary to reduce Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate (the process is called Oxidation ...). Some wet/drys are so efficient that they are called Nitrate factories in the reef world ...

So ... is a wet/dry better or is a drip system better? You need to define what your goals are. There is a combination of filtering and water changes that meet your needs ... I would suggest that wet/dry is great where you CAN'T do w/cs often and need to extend the life of the water in the system ... drip is great for easy, frequent water changes (but you still need some filtration), and if you have NO filtration you will need a constant water change system.

Incidently, a central system allows for the centralization of infrastructure (filter, heater, water change point ...) BUT adds risk as water from all tanks are mixed ... if there is a problem in one tank it will become a problem in ALL tanks ...

Just some thoughts ...

Jeff

[CanadianGuy]

I think what system will work best for you depends on your situation. I do have the time to do frequent water changes, but the more I think about it the more I see drip systems as a rather large waste of money and resources. For those that have a large amount of tanks, a drip just isn't practical on a large scale. To be efficent you need to have a drip of 2 or more gph...with large tanks or many tanks those gallons add up really quickly! To add to that you STILL need to do frequent large manual water changes. Plus you have to heat each tank seperately...heat and energy that then goes down the drain! Between the costs of electricity and all the water you'll go through I don't see how a drip can be used efficently on a large setup. On the other hand for a smaller setup it seems like the better way to go.

For me I think it's worth the added risk of something spreading to the other tanks on a central system. If I keep on top of the fishes health that hopefully won't happen, but if it does I'll deal with it. I would also like to build the system so that I can isolate a particular tank for treatment or to quarantine some fish if needed.
Just some of what I've gleamed from the help that those wiser than myself have shared with me!

Life is like a box of chocolate. Drip system is like a hole in your pocket constantly dripping your money away. A wet/dry is like having a zipper on your pocket. You can run many tanks in the system for the cost of 2 tanks. such as heaters, air pumps, electricity, water change and labour for cleaning filters and wiping glasses.
Jimmy.

[Lauren]

I've been thinking I was going to get a drip system (asap) and trying to take into consideration other ways to do it. Right now I'm doing daily water changes on at least 3-4 tanks over 20gal each one at a time with a python, I have all the time in the world right now, but that might change later, more that I dont feel I should be wasting x number of hours(and the hours add up quickly when you go from draining/filling 3-4 tanks w/ a python to all 11 tanks I have setup at the time being - did I mention I still have about 10-15 empty tanks waiting to be setup lol)

Also should mention, when we first moved up here the water co. immediately got on our a$$es at putting a new digital water meter in, we figured if it aint broke dont fix it & let them complain. I think we figured out WHY they've been so grumpy about it, we got our first water bill last week & it was $24 dollars and some change, a big difference than our city water bill of $300 and I'm using at least 4x the water that I used to at our old house.
I havent been told what the electricity bill has been but I have a feeling it hasnt been affected much. The room has its own zone of heating - we dont know HOW its heated(whether electric or oil), as it doesnt have any baseboards its quite possible it has radiant heating (I always go in there when my feet are cold, the cement is warm & always warms em right up), so I crank the heat to 80, this leaves any tanks without any heaters at a steady 74F-76F (angelfish) Any tanks that need heaters have them (discus, some of my angelfish). Course the bill will go up the more discus tanks I setup since they need to be heated much more.

If I setup a drip, I knew it wouldnt be a set it & forget it type of thing, Weekly tank cleanings & large W/Cs would be needed, saving money is a big thing, but so far it doesnt seem like I have to worry about it as much as other people do. And, I dont even know much about central wet/dry filters (like almost nothing!)

Cary, I know you change mass amounts of water with or without a drip, do you do it manually (or have someone do it manually) one at a time, what methods do you use to make it easier or less time consuming?

So far, anythings better than bucket brigade though! lol

Lauren

[CanadianGuy]

Who knew Jimmy was so profound! ;D

I have seen some of his fish in person...and own some as well. If those are the results I can expect than wet/dry here I come!!!

[CARY_GLdiscus]

WET/DRY


Nice write up Jeff,
However if Your ph is High! it will never fall with a drip! This could be very bad with higher Ph tanks. This would make everything in the tank more Toxic over time. IME changeing water is better then dripping it in. Better for the fish and better for your pocket

[CanadianGuy]

If I go with a standpipe for my overflow. Is there anywhere in particular I should put it? I was just thinking on one side far enough from the glass to make cleaning easy. What do you think?