Altum Angels anyone....

[JeffreyRichard]

[quote author=Mike_T link=board=22;threadid=20659;start=0#msg210844 date=1093959481]
has anyone found documented & varified proof of anyone witnessing them spawning in captivity?

http://www.finarama.com/tba/chronicles/fornback.htm

-miket 8)
[/quote]

This has been the topic of extensive conversation within the angelfish community ... particularly on the Angelfish Forum II website (though I can't access it today for some reason ... ?). T

There have ONLY been a handful of successful spawns verified in the hobby ... maybe only 2 or three people.

here have been several articles written in Tropical Fish Hobbiest (TFH) about spawns ... a Japanese hobbiest documented a successful spawning 10 (?) years ago, and another fellow from Canada claimed to have spawned a pair ... though the evidence is lacking ... a friend of mine tried to talk to this guy, and got a lot of run-around.

Horst Linke, noted german author and fish keeper (many books about Cichlids), was supposed to have bred these fish. I actually engaged in a cyber conversation with him in the early 90's on Compuserve ... I didn't know who he was and thought he was fabracating this. However, it appears he has been successful, though there isn't much on the market in regards to these Fx fish. One would assume that successful spawning would get more press ... but ???

There are many expert angelfish breeders, notibly Steve Rybicki of Angels Plus, who have attempted to spawn this species. No success ... Steve's theory is that water conditions need to be "just right" for eggs to hatch, but no one knows what "just right" is.

There have been a handful of people who have gotten a pair of altums to spawn, but can't hatch the eggs or raise the babies.

Also, there now appears to be Scalares that look very similar to Altums that have been caught in larger quantities and imported recently ... could these be the fish that are actually being spawned instead of a real Altum?

I have 10 Altums in a 125 gallon tank that I've been raising for 4 years. Sometime in the next year or 2 I would like to set up a REAL BIG (500 gallon) tank which I hope to duplicate Orinoco River conditions, right down to the rainy/dry seasons. maybe this will trigger spawning and success?

Jeff

[Mike_T]

sounds like a worthwhile project. i've always wanted altums, i've just never devoted the tank space for em. when you keep discus you don't always have the room.

i think think the key is to closely study the subtle changes in their natural environment(diet, paramters, etc..). unfortunately the location doesn't make that an easy task. wonder what makes steve think it's an issue with the eggs? perhaps because their natural distribution isn't as wide as discus, so they've only adapted to laying eggs that hatch under very specific conditions. maybe there's some type of aquatic insect or larvae bloom that prompts spawning. what behaviors and biological factors set them apart from the scalare(which are much easier to spawn)?

it's all fascinating to me.

-miket 8)

[JeffreyRichard]

[quote author=brewmaster15 link=board=22;threadid=20659;start=0#msg210855 date=1093961615]
Hi Mike,

Peter Thode of Gwynnbrook's is selling f4's from a breeder...Horst Linke

http://www.discushatchery.com/gallery/altumpage.html

-al
[/quote]

Hmmm ... they sure look like Altums, and they are spawning ...

I wish Horst would share some of this information ... while a monopoly on captive-bred altums would be worth significant $$$, the exchange of information is priceless (and the right thing to do ...)

[wildthing]

The Orinoco and the Amazon are connected via the Rio Cassiquiare which joins the Rio Negro...actually a weird place...read this link.....

http://members.aol.com/ChrisChrz/humboldt.html

[FischAutoTechGarten]

I was just in Baltimore, MD two weeks ago. I should have stopped at Gwynn Brook Farms.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

hi everyone I have a pair of Wild Scalares hatch and wrigglers Now i ve babies in my stock no problems ;D ;D the baby wild Scalares are F-1

I got a pair of wild Altums Angels They spawned and ate the eggs I lost the pair of altums angels due toxic water :-[ They were really so beauitful fish but they are really so HUGE fish. i was very close to get chance to have babies.

I want to get back Wild Altums F-0 in my hatchery. They are worth it but really beauitful in plant tanks.

How to breed for Wild Altums and Wild Scalares.


you have to grow out after 2 years old to start to spawn.

water keep ph lower than 6.5 ph
very very soft water about 60 conductivity about 30 hardness water, because of my tap water hardnes is really very low.
keep temp between 80 to 82

HTH

Duncan

[Mike_T]

The Orinoco and the Amazon are connected via the Rio Cassiquiare which joins the Rio Negro...actually a weird place...read this link.....

http://members.aol.com/ChrisChrz/humboldt.html

that's a pretty good read. i would have never thought of using horses to catch electric eels..heh. here's some basic info on the Biosphere Reserve:

http://www2.unesco.org/mab/br/brdir/...1&mode=all

-miket

[Ryan]

This is the first time I've ever seen those pictures of the altum pairs. I wonder how these fish behave compared to the wild altums, and if they're more inclined to spawn in captivity than their wild relatives?

Ryan

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Ryan

This is the first time I've ever seen those pictures of the altum pairs. I wonder how these fish behave compared to the wild altums, and if they're more inclined to spawn in captivity than their wild relatives?

Its almost same as Discus 's behavor pair up and spawn. But they are more aggressive pair up than discus. They swim very fast they might to kill other fish when they will spawn. That Altums behavor as like cichlids. All cichlids pair up are very aggressive to protect to the nests. When the fish toward the nest, they will kill them or the fish will stay away,because they are too aggressive. Altums are more aggressive than other cichlids. Altum males are bigger than female. when you see their belly smaller papilla than female. when you will see tube come out it. you can see it really very thick and long about 1/4" then male you will see 1/8" . The altums can laid eggs about 600 to up. They can grow up to 20" top and bottom fin. I dont get grow that size. I had a pair of Altums they were 12" to 14" from top to bottom fin.
The wild sclarce is almost same as altums but they are not really too aggressive as altums behavior. Wild Sclarce spawn behavior as commons angels.

HTH my information.

Duncan

[jn4u]

The first recorded breeding of Wild-Caught Altum was Germany if I understand this was in artificially way? Some month after this there was a recorded breeding in Sweden. This breeding is recorded on video and I have seen in person. Sven the breeder happen to bee a very good breeder of discus also. That’s why I know him, Breeding is recorded on this site and the German magazine datz.

http://www.finarama.com/tba/chronicles/forn_content.htm

I happened to have some photos from his aquarium on my site. Took these photos some years ago.
http://discusfish.nu/blogger/gallery/21.aspx

I’m also an angel fan and have some of my own (40). But I never talk about that on this site :-(. My personal favourite is the “manacpauru red back”. I more or less tried of discus . Look on my site and you will find some angels on my photos.

[wildthing]

altums have higher fins than scalare, with a nice rusty red tone, and their nose is much more 'notched' than scalare
many times scalare are sent as altums.....if they come from Brazil or Peru they are usually not altums but scalare.

[Mike_T]

i realize this is the discus forum, but if you're thinking of getting altums, it's important to know the differences, since you'll pay more for them. other types are passed off as altums all the time, whether the seller knows it or not. just at our last local fish auction, there were two scalares with relatively thick stripes in a bag marked "pair of altums."

dw,

have you noticed any variations in altums as far as color and pattern go?

-miket 8)

[wildthing]

[quote author=Mike_T link=board=22;threadid=20659;start=15#msg211424 date=1094135702]
i realize this is the discus forum, but if you're thinking of getting altums, it's important to know the differences, since you'll pay more for them. other types are passed off as altums all the time, whether the seller knows it or not. just at our last local fish auction, there were two scalares with relatively thick stripes in a bag marked "pair of altums."

dw,

have you noticed any variations in altums as far as color and pattern go?

-miket 8)
[/quote]

I have not noticed any significant differences between altums that aren't just the normal differences between closely related members of the same species, sometimes there is a hint of blue sometimes redder, but I think this is attributable to local water conditions and diet......like blue face heckels but not as pronounced, that tends to go away after a few weeks in an aquarium.

My last Altums I grew out to about 4" body size, but when I moved they ( about a dozen) all went into a pool with the discus and they all died one by one soon after...tho the discus were just fine. While they were in that pool they kept themselves apart...I think the discus had something to do with their demise!

They will be replaced very soon with some of those lovelies from Al..

[brewmaster15]

Count on it David!

Next week..after the Holiday i'll make a road trip ;D

-al

[Lauren]

Theres one type of fish featured at one of the few BAS meetings I went to they showed us. It looked JUST like an altum in many ways except it had black stripes as opposed to the lighter brown stripes of an Altum - when they asked "What is it?" alot of people said Altum
WRONG! lol, it was a peruvian altum. Although I've never seen another picture of a peruvian altum that looked anywhere as close to the Altum as the one I saw at the BAS meeting.

http://www.finarama.com/tba/chronicl...ianscalare.htm

I'd love some home bred altums, that would be pretty awesome

Lauren