Dimetridazole

[ozone]

hello there,

I purchased Dimetridazole to treat for long strringy excretment and I was wondering what the correct dosage was. The vet specified 2 grams per 100 litres of water as perscribed. Back in a day I saw that Rod had used the stuff b4 and was wondering what the treatment pattern was for them.

For those who don't know it does the same thing as the Regular metro but is 100 percent water soluble. I have had it a while but the expiry date is not for two more months. I hoped I would never need it but now I do.

Thanks Al

[korbi_doc]

ozone, please clarify! Dimetridazole is not the same as dimetronidazole, which is the more soluble form of metronidazole. The dimetridazole is, I believe, the medication that is used in pigeons & is now used in fish for cryptobia.. & yes there are those out there who use it in serious intractable illness in the fish.. correct me if I'm wrong ppl, but just be sure which one you are using, just a thought, Dottie

[Jeff]

You are right Dottie.

[fshngal]

Dear Ozone,

Based upon my lab report, as Dottie has suggested there are two different medications. Dimetridazole is mixed in the tank water at a rate of 3gms/10gals(per DVM at Univ of Florida) for 5-7 days. See attachment #1

Dimetronidazole is to be mixed with the discus food and fed to the discus. I have just emailed off the Roy, DVM to verify the actual dosing and days for this medicine.

HTH,
Mary

[Discusgeo2]

These are the directions I have from ChemAqua when I buy it in bulk form

DIMETRONIDAZOLE (WATER SOLUBLE)
Water soluble bulk powder. Colorless antibiotic specific for Angels, Discus, Tetras, Corydoras, Plecostomus, and all marine fish.

DOSE: 250mg to 10 net gallons every other day for 5 days (three treatments are suggested). Repeat full treatment in 3 days if necessary.

Here is some very good reading especially if you are a vet and can understand it all. It even talks about Superverm and the results someone had with Discus. Both active ingredients of Supaverm® have been used separately as immersion treatments for flukes in fish.
http://www.ornamentalfish.org/common...rnalissue4.pdf



Cryptobiosis In Cichlidae: Fun For The Whole Family

Roy P. E. Yanong1, 2, Eric Curtis1, 2, Riccardo Russo1, 2, Ruth Francis-Floyd2, 3,RuthEllen Klinger 3, Ilze Berzins 2, 4, Karen Kelley 5, and Sarah L. Poynton6

1Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory, IFAS, University of Florida, Ruskin, FL;
2Dept. of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL;
3Dept. of LACS, College of Vet. Med., Univ. of Florida, Gainesville, FL; 4Florida Aquarium, 701 Channelside Dr, Tampa, FL; 5Electron Microscopy Core Lab., ICBR, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL; 6Div. of Comp. Med, Johns Hopkins Univ. School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD


Granulomatous gastritis is common in numerous species of Old and New World ornamental cichlids. Nutritional disease, clostridiosis, mycobacteriosis, and flagellated protozoal infections are a few proposed or identified etiologies. Fungi, rickettsia, amoeba, nematodes, and foreign bodies can also incite similar responses. Specific etiologies have been difficult to prove. Based on diagnostics and observations from clinical cases, and on the scientific literature, infection with Cryptobia iubilans appears a major cause of granulomatous gastritis/gastroenteritis in cichlids. C. iubilans and Spironucleus vortens, both flagellated protozoans found in the gastrointestinal tract in cichlids, differ in morphology, typical pathology, primary target organ, and therapy. S. vortens does not cause granulomatous disease, targets primarily the intestinal tract, and can be treated effectively in ornamental tropical fish with metronidazole. C. iubilans causes primarily granulomatous gastritis; severe infestation can result in more widespread, systemic granulomatous disease, and metronidazole is not an effective treatment. Morbidity and mortality in a population seem affected by many factors: water quality, presence of other pathogens, diet, fish species, size, and age. Good husbandry appears important for prevention and severity reduction. Rigorous diagnostics (including TEM) are important for detection and identification of the parasite, which has been found alive with in cell vacuoles and dead within granulomas. Overall epidemiology is poorly understood; in more advanced disease, mobile, luminal parasites may no longer be present. Bath treatments of dimetridazole (at 80 mg/L for 24 hours x 3 days) and 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol (at 10 mg/L for a minimum of 3 days), in experimental studies, appear to be promising treatments against this parasite, reducing prevalence of infection, although further studies are necessary.

[fshngal]

Here is Roy's reply from my email of earlier today.

""We did appear to have much better luck with the bath treatments (80 mg/L for 24 hours, x 3 days (at least 70-80% water changes in between each treatment)—probably would go at least 5-7 days, if possible);

The oral treatment we tried was 20 mg/gram of food, for 4 days, and we didn’t have as much success as with the bath treatment.

For the oral, you may want to try (which we weren’t able to) 20-30 mg/gram of food for 7-10 days (fed at approximately 3% body weight divided over two feedings per day). Again, all of these dosages and suggestions are experimental—so keep an eye out on the fish to monitor their behavior and appearance""

All credit to ---- Roy P. E. Yanong, VMD----

Regards,
Mary

[fshngal]

George,

I like the """Cryptobiosis In Cichlidae: Fun For The Whole Family" and whole heartedly agree.

M

[Tad]

Dear Ozone,

Based upon my lab report, as Dottie has suggested there are two different medications. Dimetridazole is mixed in the tank water at a rate of 3gms/10gals(per DVM at Univ of Florida) for 5-7 days. See attachment #1

.

HTH,
Mary

Mary,
3grams is how much of a teaspoon?....I do not have a gram scale ..I will be starting treatment with dimetridazole for a 7 day run.

Regards,
Tad

[ping]

Hi Tad,

Try this ... http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/gram_calc.htm (US tablespoon / teaspoon)

Not all tablespoons are the same. The British tablespoon is 17.7 ml while the American tablespoon is 14.2 ml. The Australian tablespoon is 20 ml and in most Canadian recipes the tablespoon is 15 ml. http://www.csgnetwork.com/cookmeasuretable2.html

Cheers,
Ronny

[Tad]

Thanks Ronny,
I knew I could count on my lil buddy from Perth

regards,
Tad

[ozone]

Thanks for all the replies, that helps alot.

[Discusgeo2]

You really shouldn't compare the amouint of meds inside a teaspoon because you are not getting the correct dosage. Medications all have a different composistion and the weight will vary for each. If you want to treat your fish correctly go out and get the proper equipment to measure it. Your just taking the shotgun method trying to dose your tank. What happens if you overdose, you may kill your fish. What happens if you underdose, you don't kill all the bugs and have a reaccuring problems and you will be back here saying the meds didn't work, my fish are still sick or dead.
George

[Tad]

Good point George Your absolutely correct.

However, the recommended dosage of 100 percent dimetridazole for Cryptobia that I got was measured in teaspoons and not grams. I will contact the University of Florida again to verify the dosage of 100 percent dimetridazole. Im not trying to take the "shotgun" approach trust me, I've lost enough discus to the cryptobia already. I have already culled in the last week 32 adult domestics and will treat my tank of affected wilds with the dimetridazole as an experiment to see how effective the medications are...If I see any signs of the continuing problem I will flush the wilds too.

Can you recommend to me a source for a good and not so pricey gram scale?

regards,
Tad

[kjmillerfw]

Tad,

I just bought a scale from Walmart that is intended to measure food that measures in 1/8th gms or ounces. It was around $40.

I just took a fish to A&M testing lab yesterday so I should be getting some results soon. I think it's highly likely I have some fish with this nasty stuff too. I've treated with several rounds of metro for hex like symptoms and lost 4 of the 8 that were sick. Now I'm down to the final three and hoping that the rest of my fish don't fall victim to this too.

I want to thank you all (especially Mary) for posting all of this info and I will report my findings as soon as I have them.

Best of luck with your treatment Tad.

Kathy

[Tad]

Kathy,
I appreciate the information on the scale, You know what?...My wife Judi said the same thing , maybe I should listen to her more often LOL..

As for your fish,
All I can say is I'm so sorry to hear that you have loss fish and hope that the test back from Texas A&M come back with no Cryptobia..This is insidious to say the least.....

I also have to agree, Mary has been very helpful sharing information and assistance!

If I can be of any assistance or help please do not hesitate to ask.

regards,
Tad