Contemplating major changes at SimplyDiscus...

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Change can be a good thing or a bad thing , You can't really know whats going to work and whats not until you try it so once again I am Thinking about making changes here. Some of the things that I am considering to do will be controversial (big news there ) others won't really affect many here. Some I will try to get some feedback on before I institute them, others , well..They will just happen.

One thing I would like to get feedback on now is the current sponsorship system. The way its set up now is I try to screen applicants as best I can for a good reputation.Admittedly, the screening is largely subjective on my part. I ask for references if I do not know someones forum reputation...I talk with their customers etc. Its the best I can do to try to bring quality sellers to the membership here and generate revenue to the site. (Theres a fee involved which helps fund the site and enables the sellers to commercially sell in a designated section of the forum. No commercial sales are allowed outside this area.)

What I want to know from everyone here is whether you think I should allow anyone that wants one to have a banner or be a sponsor here, regardless of their reputation on the forums or in particular circles? This would give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they would behave ethically as a clean starting point. Sponsorships could be removed ( and have been already) when a seller has shown themselves to be "Ethically Challenged".Again, its a subjective decision on my part.

Additionally should I allow comments of members in the sponsor section? This section is currently read only much like a classified section of a newspaper. It has worked great as it keeps the politics out of that section. But it also makes it more difficult for the membership to actually share their experiences with a particular vendor. Theres also a disadvantage in that when you look at that section you only see the most recent sale by a seller., when in fact, several sellers may be having great sales. The benefit is also that section doesn't need moderators since only sponsors can post....its a minor one, but it was a consideration as when posts were allowed there, it tended to need watching.

I am currently trying to come up with a fair way to allow feedback.Its been an area of great concern and head ache for me as I want to allow expression of everyones opinions and experiences but I can't do so at the risk of a lawsuit to the site. I still would not allow flaming someone, but if I can define a way to allow negative feedback I am open to it. The key is it has to be fair...something along the ebay system, not to be used as conflict resolution, but just a sharing of experiences as buyers and sellers. With checks in place that prevent people from anonymously posting to attack someone. I think the persons identity needs to be disclosed in someway....or something similar to that.I will consider anyones suggestions here, and would really be interested in hearing from a few of our lawyers as well.

Another area is auctions...I would like to bring them back...is there a sincere interest and again...should I let anyone sell in an auction?

last question... Chat.. does anyone really use it and want to see it back here?

Thats not all the list, but its a start for now...I want to try to represent what you want So please let me hear your thoughts on these areas. You can contact me and share them anonymously if you prefer.

Thanks,
Al

[Carol_Roberts]

I think the vendor section is working just fine the way it is now. I'd let anybody have a banner. People with bad experiences can post IM me for details.

Not many people were on chat towrds the end, but we have many new hobbyists here now.

Auctions are good, but should be held on a monthly basis to keep interest up.

[Greg Richardson]

Hi Al. On the liability issue isn't there a way for a potential sponsor before signing up to sign an agreement releiving this site from liability if someone according to them damages their reputation in any way?

BTW. I think the current PM way of talking among potential buyers works well without bringing flame wars to the site.

I do realize people myself included would like to hear everything about people's transactions before and after the sale to determine if one would do future business with them.

Yet, due to how I think it ruins the site by so much tension along with other factors over all I believe current way works best.

[tpl*co]

I like the auction/feedback idea. I see things on Aquabid and find out it's someone here (or fish that has passed hands from here). It would give me more warm and fuzzies to know that the person/vendor is directly from here . Also, I like reading feedbacks/reviews.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

I'd leave the Reader comments OUT of the Sponsorship section. You'll only hear from those with a complaint and more than likely it will be slightly to greatly exaggerated. It's human nature, people want their complaints to be justified and not to appear petty, so they induldge themselves a bit (ie blow things out of proportion) to make their point. (Most of us have probably been guilty at some time of doing the same thing when we've taken our autos to the dealership for warranty items). The effect is, the casual reader is led to believe the situation is more serious than it really is. Leave the current PM method in place.

In my business now, I have over 300 customers. I only hear from the 10 really obnoxious, ungrateful ones. So, if you screened my answering machine like a forum, you'd think we provide the absolute worst service out there.

Give folks the benefit of the doubt and open the sponsorship up a bit. I'd even go so far as to suggest re-instating a few that have had sponsorshiped revoked, if appropriate (ie can be reasonably certain they will behave). Wouldn't hurt to get a little more money trickling into the site.

[funkyfish]

i think a poll for every sponsor mite work. it would be nice to know who ppl have had good service from but then agian the sponsor mite not like it cause if folks don't like there service there poll will show it. I would like to see who
offers the best service but thats jmo.I think that idea sounded better in my head

[Spices]

Hi all,
Peter made a good point concerning the human expressions: "over-exhaggerated stories of a bad sale or a good sale." A feedback area will unjustifiably tip the scale for some sellers and others will be left in the dark with no recommendations or very little.

The forum's driving purpose really should be focused on educating and exploring the subject we all love, discus.

We can explore areas of a few contests running with everyone's incorporation. A small nominal (annual) fee for membership to this forum will help to fund contests held on a monthly (twice a month) basis.

We can explore areas of give-a-way contests: have those sponsored breeders put a box (of minimally 3 good quality discus) together and ship it to the monthly jackpot ("Pick-a-Discus-Fan"), for example.

Something jazzy and different will help this forum and boost the game up a bit.

**A**

[brewmaster15]

Hi all, thanks for the the feedback so far, please keep it coming. Its important to me to hear from as many of you as I can.

-al

ps.. Angie, I will never charge a membership here, It goes against what Ryan and I intend for the forum as a free source of info for hobbyists and breeders. The best I hope for is that people recognize the valuable resource this forum is to them...I'm biased of course but I think Its better than any discus book out there and in many ways on par with local fish clubs and associations as far as interactions IMO. Real time info and real time interactions at any time...you can't find that anywhere but forums like this one. Those that recognize what this site represents and has the potential to do, try to support it and any programs its involved in. Many have over the years, and for that I am grateful.


The Contest ideas and giveways are always great ideas and ones I try to organize...Its may sound easy, but it takes a lot of work and its hard to find people with the free time and interest to help out in the organization of the event. I put a post up a few months ago asking for such help and got 2 replies for one area(legal help) and no replies for anything else.People are just very busy I guess.

[kaceyo]

I think your "clean start" idea for people wanting banners and sponsorships is a good one. For those who sell discus and related products, a place for their customers to at least rate them might avoid the exagerations and flaming that inevitably goes along with written complaints. The customer could rate the seller in variuos catagories like product quality-shipping quality-responce to questions and problems where Appropriet-etc. Maybe a 1 thru 10 in each catagory or something like it. I think this is basicly what you already had in mind.
I really never go to the sellers section any more unless I'm thinking of buying something. I liked it better before but understand why it wasn't working. A rating system would alow people to build up an idea of who they want to deal with over time.
I think if they are advertizing a particular strain a photo of he tank/fish should be required. It's got to be give and take at both ends.
Contests are allways fun if possible.
Chat? Yeah! Although my current system won't allow for them

Kacey

[Dillan]

I wouldn't feel obligated to screen and endorse your advertisers if you think of them as "advertisers" and not "sponsors". I think the members here are pretty good at identifying both quality and sketchy suppliers... And we know to do our homework before we haul out the credit card. Having said that, I also think that if you know a supplier to be "ethically challenged" (love that phrase!) then you're not obligated to accept their advertising. Thanks for facilitating this community!!!

[Don_Lee]

Here is my two cents.........maybe three, lol.
I think anyone that would like to get a banner should be able to get one. Of course, the site owner/administrator always has the option to pull the banner if there are difficulties with a particular seller. Feedback would be a good thing, and keeping it strictly to a numeric rating type scale would be a non-confrontive way to post opinions.
I would tend to think the sponsors should decide if they want others to be able to post in the Sponsor area.....
I miss chat alot, and would love to see it back. Some of us used to have a great time on it, and for emergencies it really allows instant feedback.

Don

[Bainbridge Mike]

Hi Al:

I think you should give everyone the benefit of the doubt in allowing folks to purchase banners. If the seller does not perform up to the standards we expect, people will find out about it. As for the liability issue---I think you can include language in your contract with the sponsors indemnifying you and Simply from all claims resulting from 3rd party statements. (then if there is a real problem with the statements, the sponsor still has recourse against the party making the statements in the first instance.) I really enjoy participating in this online community, so I hope the legal stuff does not get in the way. You can PM me if you want to discus the legal stuff further.

Mike

[April]

i think the banners should be opened up.
some kind of feedback could be good . not sure how you could implement it though. maybe feedback via im forum.

[Howie_W]

I also think feedback is a good thing.

Something to consider;

Anyone who uses Ebay and is familiar with it's workings, knows that part of the buying and selling process involves a rating system. Part of the rating system is based upon buyer and seller feedbacks.

When making a purchase from Ebay, it's extremely helpful to look at a sellers history, and draw your own conclusions i.e. two negative commments versus 500 postives ones says a great deal.


Perhaps there's a way we could come up with something similar?



Howie

[ShinShin]

I would be opposed to an open banner policy. The integrity of the forum is at stake. If I saw a banner from a certain "dealer" , let's say from California promoting his infamous "Chameleon" discus, I would assume that, because I saw his banner here, that an implied endorsement by the forum has been granted, therefore, that "dealer" must be reputable and a purchase would be safe. Is the concern here for more revenue so that the forum may grow? Or, is more revenue needed just to maintain the status quo? If the answer is the former, rather than the latter, I vote for no growth. Bigger does not mean better in all cases. If it is the latter, then I still see no reason at this point to compromise intergrity for dollars. More information would be needed to base a decision.

I don't care about the Chat Line one way or the other.

Buyers need a way to give feedback on vendors, pro & con. Not in the vendor section, though.

Auctions would be good, I believe.

I would like to see doing away with screen names and have people's actual "real" names used 100% of the time.