Contemplating major changes at SimplyDiscus...

[Bainbridge Mike]

In light of the comment above, I need to clarify what I meant when I said that breeders/importers seeking a banner should be given the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that banners should be available to anyone and everyone. Instead, a breeder/importer should be given the benefit of any doubt. However, if a vendor with a bad reputation (from a reliable source) applied for a banner, then there would be no doubt and the application should be rejected. Sometimes (but not often, sadly) people change, so you should also consider giving some potential sponsors/advertisers a second chance. Unlike major league baseball, however, there should be no such thing as a 4th, 5th or 6th chance.

Thanks,
Mike

[jdellman]

Al,

Regarding the banners, maybe you can have the best of both worlds. Have it open to all, and the ones that you know are reputable, you can label them "endorsed." A poll can be set up for those who have dealt with a particular sponsor, and give a positive rating, and set a number for positive ratings for an "endorsed" label. An alternative would be to give a subjective "opinion" on a site that it is "endorsed" by you, similar to how you are allowing sponsors now. The subjective opinion, as long as it is stated as such, should provide the site with legal protection. The poll would probably provide more legal protection.

I personally agree with ShinShin's suggestion to do away with screen names. It takes awhile to figure out who everyone is, and for the new people, it would help identifying who people are refering to when they alternatively refer to screen names and real names. I would think the real names would especially help those who are selling Discus. It took me a while to figure out which screen name was associated with the different sites selling Discus, and I still am unsure about some of them.

I do not know if it is possible to set it up, but there may be a way to have people keep their screen names, but when they post, a "signature" automatically lists their real name.

As far as the chat room, I think it is a good idea, especially for those times when someone is having a problem.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

[Gold Mt Discus]

Love the auctions and contests ideas. Chat is even okay, as long as it pertains to the discus world. If youngsters are coming on this site and can use the chat, you would need some kind of control.
As a new discus person, I enjoy this site. There is enough information here and knowledgeable people that I personally could be kept busy learning for the next 20 years. I don't want to be stressed out reading about negative stuff. And being curious, I would go to those sections. I wouldn't be able to help myself. Then the fun starts dropping out of it. Pretty soon, you don't come at all.
And, as a new discus person here, I would pay a monthly or annual fee to be able to come here. I could never afford to pay for the true value of the information in here so annual or monthly dues would be okay with me.
Respectfully,
Frank

[brewmaster15]

This is the kind of feedback I need from the site so please keep it coming.

On the banners and sponsors..its not a decision related to revenue. Although Additional Revenues is always needed to run a web forum like this unless its owner is independently wealthy (which I am not ), I just want to get a feeling for how you all look at the banners and sponsors, and a feeling of what my criteria should be, if any in allowing a seller a spot here. I have always felt an obligation to try and raise the bar as far as discus standards and ethics...which is why I have the current banner and sponsor policies in place...I do however realize that not everyone agrees on who is a good seller and who is not, and that my subjective view may not be fair. That said , is my subjective view and attempted screening fair enough for the sites membership? I know I can't please everyone in how I run the site, but I do want to take as many peoples thoughts to heart over matters where I can.

-al

[Robin764]

One of my all time favorite things to look at here before it was changed was the photos folks would post under the vendor section of their newly acquired fish purchased under the 4-sale thread. This has led to purchases for me from the same vendor.

I love to see, newly shipped fish looking great, and greedily consuming what their new owners throw into the tanks.

You know what threads I mean....the ones that say...
Hey Cary, fish arrived, looked great!...here they are after 24 hours eating happily......

I say, let em post their feedback on their purchases....if its a matter of policing the vendor thread for negatives...because I do agree they should not be allowed....I would be happy to volunteer my services
I only work about 20 hours a week now...and have plenty of time!

I also hate the format of the vendor threads as they are now....I like to log into it, and see all the recent posts for fish for sale, and as it is now, it is very difficult to see. Especially those vendors such as Jeff, GLD, and Dan where the fish are literally sold within hours of posting!

The sponsorship I think should remain the same. I know if I click on a banner here, I am going to a reputable site. However, if the possibility of more sponsorships would ultimately be better for the site, then I like the endorsed idea

Just my 10 cents...(inflation ya know)

Robin

[Robin764]

oh...PS....

Auctions...Yay!....Auctions....Yay!

Robin

[Don_Lee]

I need to amend my earlier statement about potential sponsors/banners....I do not believe just anyone should be allowed to have a banner on this site. There is a breeder/importer by the name of Heppner Discus, Heps Discus, that appears to be a dishonest and unscrupolous seller, http://www.aquabid.com/forum/forum.c...&category=cafe
One of the major benefits of this site has been to learn about discus. Obviously, part of this learning includes where to go to get quality discus specimens from reputable sources. This site has done an excellent job of allowing ONLY top-quality importers/breeders to advertise on the site. In my opinion we should continue to demand that only top quality sellers advertise here.
Kudos to Al for keeping this site free of unsavory sorts..........

Don

[Tad]

Good post Don,

regards,

Tad

[Discusgeo2]

I also agree with Don there are some who don't give a darn about the sale afterwords. Like the Link that Don has posted above, it looks like Hep's Discus Center has created more controversy on the way they have handled a certain sale which has not been the first time this company has done this.

[RyanH]

Giving a person the benefit of the doubt or a "second chance" is fine under some circumstances. Nearly every breeder or importer has, at some time in their careers, been involved in a transaction where the customer was less than pleased with the product that they spent their hard-earned money on. Most of these sellers indeed have the best of intentions but are still, afterall only human and inevitably will make mistakes. However, the difference between these sellers and the bad egg variety is that in the end, they do their best to make the situation right for the customer.

This is obviously not the case with all sellers. There are also plenty of bad eggs out there that need to be recognized as such. Allowing these sellers with a long history of consistently unethical dealings to advertise here would only serve to hurt unsuspecting members and damage our reputation in the hobby IMO. I believe that we have a responsibility to do everything we can to protect our members from fraudulent and unethical transactions. This starts with screening who can and who cannot advertise their fish here. Our members expect and deserve only the best information that maximizes their chances of succeeding in this hobby. This includes who to buy and who not to buy fish from. Anything less and we are letting them down.

Discretion needs to continue when choosing sponsors IMO.

-Ryan

[korbi_doc]

I believe Ryan has it right! I've always felt that if a forum allows a "sponsor" or "vendor's banner", it inevitably is inherent that the forum endorses these vendors, even when they put up a disclaimer. I was outvoted on this, but still believe it to be true, especially with "newbies" who haven't figured out the differences yet...The incident of the past week demonstrates how severely any bad behaviour can affect a good forum with the best interest of hobbyists at heart...hopefully this problem will be resolved & most members will be satisfied. Not all will be.. & Ryan I especially appreciate your statement: Quote:

"I believe that we have a responsibility to do everything we can to protect our members from fraudulent and unethical transactions. "

This may be a tall order, but at least you're trying your best!!

As to the chat, I used to check in sometimes & did like it, although many times was just too tired (gettin' old haha) at night to continue; but then they started with some kind of vocal "radio" connection & I couldn't figure out how to get in on it.. just my $.02.... Dottie

[Spices]

I need to amend my earlier statement about potential sponsors/banners....I do not believe just anyone should be allowed to have a banner on this site. There is a breeder/importer by the name of Heppner Discus, Heps Discus, that appears to be a dishonest and unscrupolous seller, http://www.aquabid.com/forum/forum.c...&category=cafe
One of the major benefits of this site has been to learn about discus. Obviously, part of this learning includes where to go to get quality discus specimens from reputable sources. This site has done an excellent job of allowing ONLY top-quality importers/breeders to advertise on the site. In my opinion we should continue to demand that only top quality sellers advertise here.
Kudos to Al for keeping this site free of unsavory sorts..........

Don

HOLY SMOKES!!! Yipes!!!
I'm in complete shock! I really had no idea it was this serious. I was a one time or two time buyer from the seller.

Hosting the private SimplyDiscus Auctions with reputable professional breeders won't be such a bad idea and keeping a feedback summary too is an excellent idea ... only to prevent "fowl" sellers/dealers. The bad thing about this is that a newbie seller may come in and not be able to "toe-in-line" with heavy pros out here.

Thanks for pointing to the article, Don. Darn... that is such a shame. I'm stunned for sure. Makes me wanna roll out of here. I stopped using AB for a while now because I'm finding too many "fowl and fake sellers" out there.

[April]

yeppers. don is right. better to have less banners and less members and also less problems..and less dogpiles like what i just read on that post don showed. soon we will be in the dogpile battling along with the rest. also someone else said bigger isnt always better.
if auctions..maybe only auctions via sponsors and screened people. not just anyone..or we will be no different than aquabid.
ebays feedback is good..depending on how hard it would be to set up a feedback forum. i have no idea on the workings of setting up forums etc.

[KIWI13]

Well I would like to confirm what most people have already stated.

Sponsor section works the best the way it is. Unwanted comments ( good or bad) just fill up the thread and we loose sight of the product for sale.

Maybe a comments section or like funky fish said a rating for sponsors is much better.

Chat, is good and bad cause things can get out of hand rapidly. If you got the manpower to moderate it then Bravo. Go for it. If not your asking for trouble cause chat attracts the arguementitive type alot and we all know what that leads too.

Banners, well I agree that everyone willign to pay for one should get one BUT I would research into their backgrounds. Simply discus would not want to be advertising bad breeders or sellers who are know as rip off's. THis can under-rate our site which has a reputation to hold on to.

A select few sponsors with good reps is alot more valuable than a million cut throats.

The winning criteria on all Simply sites ar the team of moderators. I know first off that Simply Cichilds has a bang up team that works like a well oiled machine and here on SD I have noticed the same. Hats off to the Mods on here too for keepin it clean and helpful and I have come to know a few of you well. I think if chat is bought on then certain mods need to be designated to chat room duties only cause that is a handfull in itself.

Well thats my bit. If I think of more I'll give ya a buzz Al and irritate you as usual

Jas

[deseyered]

Hi Everyone

I know I don't post much on this website. Right now I have 3 little discus.. well 2 have grown to about 4 inches. I purchased them from a store in Anaheim, Ca. They have quite a selection of fish. Now, I'm not from Anaheim. I drive there to work. I found them through the retailer reviews at www.cichlid-forum.com where I've become a moderator.

As a new person looking at discus, it's hard to figure out who is on the up n up. I've only talked to a couple of people. I had talked to a breeder about purchasing some discus. I found out before I bought any fish from him that his reputation was not the best. I've had a few people privately help me by steering me away from unscrupulous sellers like the one in the post here. A review section like the one that Cichlid-Forum.com offers is what is called for. In fact it might be easiest if the breeders & sellers were listed at cichlid-forum because then Simply Discus would take no responsibility for any of the reviews offered.

I noticed that Jack Wattley is listed there, however not many other discus breeders/ sellers. The review section at cichlid forum is for all cichlid breeders, not just africans etc. If discus people went over and submitted different breeders/sellers and reviewed them at cichlid-forum.com then it would be easy for anyone needing to post reviews to go over to that section and post their positive or negative ratings. It would be a place to send potential Discus owners to look at the reviews of the different breeders/sellers.

If everyone here did their posting there, this site could concentrate on what it does best: Talk About Discus. I know that eric and the guys that run the cichlid forum would have no problem including discus breeders there. It would also be a good place for you to all put your 2 cents in about the different breeders that are out there.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/retailer_index.php

If that isn't really something that the site wants to do, then perhaps setting up something like this review section. All reviews are done by members for other members.

If people here are worried about whether or not this would be detrimental to SimplyDiscus, I'd like to point out that Discus does not have it's own forum there and in fact the people managing the site have made it clear that Discus are discussed elsewhere with more knowledgable people. In fact, I found a site to discuss Frontosas in more depth by following a link from Cichlid Forum. I still sit as a moderator at cichlid forum however I find myself posting more frequently at the Frontosa Forums. Cichlid Forums can and should be used as a wonderful resource for all Cichlid Lovers... even Discus people!