HOW TO BREED AND RAISE DISCUS

[candyl70]

I found something in my book Baron's Discus Book,

" water hardness also affects the regulation of the fish's blood calcium level, so significant differences between a fish's native water hardness and its aquarium environment require the fish to work harder to maintain its blood calcium level."


I think that alone is a good reason for softer water. .. yes?



Candy

[ronrca]

Whos was bigger in size, Jacks or his friends?

Every breeder has their own ways and methods developed that works for them. Its very interesting that discus have now been tank bred for decades and many juvs grown out/raised in harder water. While breeding still take softer water, there is no scientific evidence that indicates the domestic discus fair better or worse in harder water. I remember Dick Au mentioning this as well in one of his workshops. Even the water that we are using for breeding is different that the biotope that discus orginially came from. I believe that we need to keep the word domestic in mind.

Let me also add the its usually not in the interest of the hobbyiest to spend money on RO just to keep discus. One of the myths attached to this type of fish and will deter many interested keepers.

[american breeder]

Very interesting!!! It's pretty much excepted by all here that harder water, up to 300ppm TDS, will increase the growth rate and improve development of bones etc. in young fish. I think Jack Wattley is at least partly responsible. He wrote that he noticed a significant difference in size between his own fish and a fellow Florida breeders when they split spawns, each raising half, and each using the same foods, water change ruetine etc. The only dif they could find was that his friends water was much harder than his own. I wonder if anyone has done side by side comparisons with soft vs hard water.

Kacey

this thing that watley and his friend did

i will tell u real answer

watleys friend was better breeder

it is simple

concerning what people here think

i have found a tremendous amount of mis info at this forum

mostly opinions about such and such topics that dont compute with TRUE HANDS ON EXPERIENCE

for me and my fish we are softys and always will be
they reach saleable size at 6 weeks
i also have a commercial grade distiller
oh yes only the very best for my fish
i spare no expense in raiseing and maintaining my facility and its population

concerning bones

they get more than enough calcium magnesium etc from the foods they eat in large quanities
RECIPE FOR QUICK GROWTH
1. SOFT WATER
2.TWICE DAILY WC
3. FEED FOODS RICH IN VITAMINS AND MINERALS
4 TEMP ABOUT 81
5. 14 HRS OF LIGHT A DAY

u see...
many so called facts at this forum are SIMPLY not real facts at all

like shipping fish without the lid on the styro insulated box..

when i saw this i said this is incredible

i told this to a friend of mine in HK
he laughed for 10 minutes

anywhoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
AB



AB

[candyl70]

Ron,
I agree that just to keep discus you definatley don't need an RO unit. Just if you want to breed. I like to keep them in soft water because it helps with so many different things. Meds work better, fish are brighter, more comfortable.... anyhow i haven't even attmepted breeding as of yet my fish are still babies... but some day...




Candy

[ronrca]

Marc, Im really glad your sharing your experiences with us. As you may of noticed in my posts, Im an advocate for evidence. Therefore, can you give me proof that domestic discus do better in soft rather than hard water. Have you tried raising discus in hard water? We agree on the breeding aspect however I would like to know how hard water affects growing and adult discus. If we have been posting misinformation about keeping discus, Id like to be the first to realize this thus please persuade me. Im listening!

I also like to add how do you measure 'comfortable' and more colored btw? I think my discus are great in color and comfortable as well.

[kaceyo]

Sorry,
It was Jacks friend that had the hard water whos fry were growing fastest. Thats why Jack is partly responsible for our beliefe that hard water grows discus faster. Few things in the discus world are so simple as "hard water grows fish faster" or visa versa. There are too many variables. But it's interesting that such completely opposite methods can be taken as the correct way by different people. In the end the best we can do is to try both whenever possible and keep an open mind to the rest.

Kacey

[american breeder]

Marc, Im really glad your sharing your experiences with us. As you may of noticed in my posts, Im an advocate for evidence. Therefore, can you give me proof that domestic discus do better in soft rather than hard water. Have you tried raising discus in hard water? We agree on the breeding aspect however I would like to know how hard water affects growing and adult discus. If we have been posting misinformation about keeping discus, Id like to be the first to realize this thus please persuade me. Im listening!

I also like to add how do you measure 'comfortable' and more colored btw? I think my discus are great in color and comfortable as well.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK
see for yourself

that is best proof

good luck

AB

[Dave C]

There ya go. Turn your temp down to 81ºF, add peat, get a water softener and change water twice daily at 100%. Got it.

[Kindredspirit]

There ya go. Turn your temp down to 81ºF, add peat, get a water softener and change water twice daily at 100%. Got it.

Hey Dave!

Did i miss something? Cuz i thought you hate to wc? Esp 2x daily! I think you are being factious....I so couldnt do twice a day... I do every other day @ 50%.... ( don't hit me anyone!)


Yes, No, maybe?


Marie~

[ronrca]

Difference of opinion is fine and perhaps the end result is the factor. On one side a dedicated breeder, on the other a hobbyiest, each having to weigh the costs based on their situation and goals. Done the homework 3 years ago and had I required all the equipment for 'soft' water, I would not have started with discus. But I did and thanks to simplydiscus helping me understand that raising/keeping discus in my tap water was acceptable. Ive spend many hours learning about gh/kh/ph/conductivity/etc thanks to the internet. The best water that a hobbyiest, especially starting out, can provide is stable water parameters. Therefore as Dick Au stated, each person has their ways/methods. Even among dedicated breeders there are differences in methods. Simply put, there is no single way, cast in stone method. I know that there are breeders growing out their discus in harder water.

Marc, let me put this in a frank manner. Statements like:

many so called facts at this forum are SIMPLY not real facts at all

i have found a tremendous amount of mis info at this forum

mostly opinions about such and such topics that dont compute with TRUE HANDS ON EXPERIENCE

just cannot be simply be posted without evidence or explainations. Im not talking about 'this is the way to do it' or 'this is how its done', etc. I love science. Ive done my reading, hearing the likes of Dick Au speak and having 'hands on experience' with discus in hard water. Show me and others that discus in hard water scientifically why not? I know that Im not nearly as knowledge and experienced as yourself however I do not blindly follow. I need to understand!

[Dave C]

Hey Dave!

Did i miss something? Cuz i thought you hate to wc? Esp 2x daily!

I don't hate w/c. I do whatever is required to keep my fish healthy & growing. I was being facetious and I hope everyone reads that advice as such. I suggest that anyone starting out with Discus use their tap water to begin with. I would store it overnight in a large enough container to satisfy whatever w/c % you deem reasonable to start with. Then adjust your w/c frequency & % over time as you note problems. If daily w/c floats your boat then go for it. I also suggest that you start with a temp of 86º, especially for young fish, and especially if you're feeding a lot of food. Start your fish with the basic methods that are successful for the thousands of hobbyists on this & other Discus forums and adjust them over time to suit your circumstances. When advice is given, examine who is giving the advice, what kind of credibility they have, what kind of evidence they provide and what kind of proven success they've had. That was one of the reasons I mentioned that Cary was changing 30% every 2nd day... he's an example of the type of Discus keeper I follow. But everyone should think for themself and not simply follow the advice du jour.

[David_Hui]

Perhaps Marc is talking from a commerical breeder's point of view. As a business owner, he has to watch his bottom line; therefore, he requires high yield and high return for all his breeders. However, for hobbyists, we could breed and raise frys from tap water but the yield is just lower. The hatch rate for my last batch was about 45%, but I got over 100 frys and did not have any loses. I got my water straight from the tap.

pH 7.5
Conductivity 500 µs
Total Hardness 101.24 ppm

[candyl70]

David,
Did you use tap water when during the egg stage?? If so that is pretty good, especially at 7.5.

[David_Hui]

same old tap water.

[ronrca]

Your kidding David! 500uS? Wow! Thats around 250TDS isnt? Thats pretty good.