What am I doing wrong??

[Kindredspirit]

In my 35 gal tank with the babies the water is so awful! I mean it guys, it is very cloudy!

I have 8 babies in there. Almost 50% wc daily. In the filter that hangs on the back, Top Fin 60, with a filter compartment on each side. In that I have sponges, bags of media, and the other day I put some carbon in~and yes I know that carbon is taboo with some....but dayumit! lol!

Too Much? Not enough? Wrong shyt? What am I doing wrong? I want it clear....We have had these babies for almost 6 weeks, I think...The water has never been clear...but this is ridiculous! Esp when you look at the 55gal and 10 right next to it~

I do feed like 5-7x a day, but there is never any left over. I do have a sponge on the intake. I use tap water. In all my tanks..No i can not age it or use RO..

A bacterial bloom for 6 weeks?? Possible? And yes the filter is cleaned on regular basis, recently in fact~I do not have my Hydro Sponge in there yet, it should be here any day, hopefully~

Months ago, I had this same problem with this same tank and someone suggested the HOT Magnum.... I bought and it made the water crystal clear....All other tanks are crystal clear!

However, I can not do that every time my water starts trippin! Anyone? Please tell me what you would do at this point~
What, if anything, am I missing??


Marie~

[Kenny's Discus]

Marie - this is gonna sound old but are your Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate in ideal range? In other words you sure you have an established biological(beneficial) filtration in place? Did you "destroy" any good bacteria when you were cleaning the media?

Also you said "your water has never been clear" & you feed 5-7x a day in a 35g. Do you feed a lot of dry food(i.e.pellets) since those will tend to "pollute" your water quite fast.

Kenny

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Do you have any driftwood or anything in your tank that may be leeching something into the water to possibly keep it cloudy??

Also did you rinse the bags of media and carbon real well before adding it?

My new 55 that i setup got cloudy a couple days after setting it up but as of last night it is crystal clear again ............. and i havent done any water changes at all. I do have driftwood in there so i figured thats what clouded it up. Theres no fish in there still so thats why no water changes yet.

I was gonna start to do some but i have to drain it soon anyway to move it to the rack i just got and im also waiting for my sponges.

I guess about all you can do is keep up with the water changes and keep a good eye on the water pareameters. And maybe remove any driftwood to see if it clears up. But you said its been 6 weeks ........... so even driftwood should be ok now. maybe do some larger WC's for a while?

HTH

[traco]

It's a voodoo tank.

Nah, just joking but I know you went through the same thing and I also did but I don't think it lasted for 6 weeks with either of us? I should go back and read my posts to see how long it took to clear up. I do think it cleared up when I put the sponge filters in the tank so I would just keep doing what you're doing with your w/c changes, feeding, etc..., wait for your sponges, get them in and see.

I know it's frustrating to look at that one tank beside the others. At least you know it's not any of your practices as the others are doing great. AND the babies are growing and eating well in this cloudy tank also (of course, I'm just guessing at that as we have not seen any pictures recently of these little guys? Do you still have them, Marie, hmmmm.......?)

Pictures, please? I just did so YOUR turn, then CANDY'S turn.

[mikesmac]

Hi, Just in case you haven't heard this before a "clean" filter is not always a good thing. A part of your filter should always be "dirty" ie. established, with the bacteria needed to keep the nitrification process going. If there are 2 sides of your filter, only clean 1 side at a time and when cleaning it don't rinse it out with anything that is going to kill off the bacteria living on the surfaces, like chlorinated water, you just want to remove the detritus(crap and such) that builds up. The best thing to have is a "biological" filter which once established will support the fish in the tank, and some sort of prefilter which will catch all of the large debris before getting to the biological media and can be rinsed daily, if needed, because it is only acting as "mechanical" filtration. This is especially important if you are feeding alot on a regular basis. Even though all of the food may be gone, the amount of excrement is proportionate to the amount being fed to the fish. You said that you clean the filter all the time....The cloudiness that won't go away sounds as if you are not letting the tank cycle and are effectively starting from scratch every time you clean the filter. With a new tank it takes a solid 6 weeks for the needed bacteria to become established in a tank. This can be accelerated by seeding the tank with bacteria from a tank that is already established, even if you just use some of the water from your other tanks to replace water in the problem tank,(or decorations, plants, rocks, etc....anything with a surface for the bacteria to be growing on) as long as you know that you won't be spreading something from those tanks to the new one (all fish are healthy, right?)

[candyl70]

MM....
Marie had sponges in another tank and put them in the 35.. so she has an established tank. Also, Marie has been around long enough that she knows how to clean her filters. No offensive. It might sound that way, i'm just telling you she knows this stuff already and it is still cloudy. Any other suggestions??


Candy

[mikesmac]

Hi Candy, Nope no other suggestions. The only time I've ever had a tank stay cloudy (white milky cloudy) was because it was being cleaned too much before it was established. (Regularly "cleaning" filters with large water changes with un-aged tap water in a newly set up tank especially if the tap water is chlorinated because I don't rely on the efficacy of "conditioners" is a recipe for an uncycled tank) If it's some other color cloudiness, like green then maybe algae? But she didn't mention green, or algae. But if you want a suggestion for that....if you have a "mag float" tank cleaner or similar 2 sided magnetic tank cleaner, as long as the magnets are pretty strong, when you aren't using it to clean the tank, store it on one of the filter lines (one on each side with the filter line / tube sandwiched in between). You wouldn't think so but this actually makes it so you don't have to use it much because the algae growth is decreased significantly. Also helps with water quality as it "softens" the water while it is in place (this is a temporary effect-water reverts back after a period of time when no longer exposed to the magnetic field) and may help with cloudiness due to the softer water having less abilty to keep particles suspended.

Mike

[mikesmac]

I did just think of 1 other thing....Seashells....don't ever use them as decoration in a low PH freshwater tank as they will cause cloudiness (acid water disolves the calcium or whatever the shells are composed of)... and mess with the ph.

Mike

[Timbo]

not sure what the particular prob is in this circumstance, but it does almost sound like an uncycled tank. And Mike may be right if you are "cleaning" your filter/media too often. With a prefilter that is functioning and maintained properly, filters should not need to be cleaned very often at all.

how often is "regular basis" Marie?

a UV sterilizer will sometimes help with water-bourn bacteria blooms, but you most likely dont have access to one. they, and a water-polishing magnum, will help clear it up, but it will come right back again until the underlying problem is addressed. let the filter(s) run undisturbed for a month or two, just clean your prefilter and keep up the regiment...bet any money that will clear it up.

and yeah, its frustrating i'm sure, but have patience. (<---easy for me to say)

MM....
Marie had sponges in another tank and put them in the 35.. so she has an established tank.
Candy

not if she has "cleaned" them too often or incorrectly

[Alight]

Got another idea. What are you feeding the babies? I've noticed that some foods cloud the water much more easily than others, and some plug the sponge filters very rapidly to the point that you have to squeeze them thoroughly every day. The foods I've notice that cause problems are Formula 1 pellets, shaved blood worms and shaved mysis shrimp.

I still feed the later two, but clean the sponge filters on my HOB filter intakes and the sponge filters thoroughly every day. This means squeezing them till almost all the gunk is out every day. I don't touch the media or sponges inside the HOB filter except once a month or even less, and then only squeeze the sponges, and gently rinse the media.

I have absolutely no ammonia or nitrites with this regime, and nitrates are at 5 ppm or under. I test daily.

I also change 70% of the water daily. Keep in mind this is a 55 gallon tank in which I grow fry to a selling size. There can be as many as 100 fry in this tank at a time (all less than 2 inches).

[Pooquey2000]

Hey Marie,

Still up?? If you are give me a call.

When John and I think back to the solution for our cloudy tanks, the remedy that always worked was to cycle the tank!

I do have a question for you. I know that your brine (wastewater) goes right down the drain, so what are you ever so delicately rinsing your media in? Per my husband/instructor, it should be the top part of the wastewater (I use a bucket), after all the excrement and detritus has settled. Marie, I have so many humorous stories to tell you of my clumbsiness in this area! What my husband has had to put up with! The storys he could tell...How many differant ways can Clutzy Colette un-cycle a tank?

I think it was Mike that has my head reeling about the alternate use of MagnaFloats! I'm going to tell John about that and learn some more! Anyway, Mike made me realize that I'm very curious to see what your tds is!

If we come up, we'll bring our tds meter and microscope for sure! Hum, just sold the four-door sedan, wonder where that and all that other stuff's gonna go in the Miata?

Chin up - the clouds will part and your sunny juvies will be seen again

Colette

[pcsb23]

In my 35 gal tank with the babies the water is so awful! I mean it guys, it is very cloudy!

I have 8 babies in there. Almost 50% wc daily. In the filter that hangs on the back, Top Fin 60, with a filter compartment on each side. In that I have sponges, bags of media, and the other day I put some carbon in~and yes I know that carbon is taboo with some....but dayumit! lol!

Too Much? Not enough? Wrong shyt? What am I doing wrong? I want it clear....We have had these babies for almost 6 weeks, I think...The water has never been clear...but this is ridiculous! Esp when you look at the 55gal and 10 right next to it~

I do feed like 5-7x a day, but there is never any left over. I do have a sponge on the intake. I use tap water. In all my tanks..No i can not age it or use RO..

A bacterial bloom for 6 weeks?? Possible? And yes the filter is cleaned on regular basis, recently in fact~I do not have my Hydro Sponge in there yet, it should be here any day, hopefully~

Months ago, I had this same problem with this same tank and someone suggested the HOT Magnum.... I bought and it made the water crystal clear....All other tanks are crystal clear!

However, I can not do that every time my water starts trippin! Anyone? Please tell me what you would do at this point~
What, if anything, am I missing??


Marie~

Marie, I am guessing that the tank is cycled and that nitrites and Am are 0. Firstly using carbon is not a crime, just remember to replace/remove it regularly. I have noticed that on my tanks when I use a sponge on the intake I can get cloudy water, don't know why, all params check out fine and the fish are fine, just looks naff!

If its poss try putting some floss in the first part of your filter and removing the sponge. just a thought!

Paul.

[ronrca]

Before jumping to any conclusion what it could be or what not, we need to establish the basics first. We need to know what the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are regardless. After that we can brainstorm and proceed to the next step. Mike made some very good points with respect to cleaning filters. It has happened many times even to experienced keepers that they accidently remove the bio filter via rinsing.

There are 2 parts to an effective filter imo, mechanical filteration and bio filteration. Both are separate however require each other to function effectively. The mechancial filteration should be cleaned daily to remove junk before it decays and causes problems. The bio filteration portion should be cleaned only as needed ie. when it starts to hinder water flow. In this particular case, Marie has sponges (mechanical) and bags of media which Im guessing are ceramic rings (bio).

Marie,
Another quick question comes to mind is how did you cycle the tank initially?

[traco]

I was guilty of the "rinsing the sponge filters really good and often" when I ran into this problem. I was worried too much about cleanliness and over-compensated. Now I have backed off with the sponge filters and rinse roughly every 3 weeks and alternating them also.

[Ryan]

I'm wondering if it's food-related, as well. If Marie's other tanks are all fine and this one isn't, what's different about this tank? She's feeding babies 5 - 7 times a day. And babies make a mess. Especially if you're shaving the foods you feed, or if they're tearing/shaking the foods which cause them to fall apart.

Certain ingredients in beefheart will make the water cloud if you don't clean up right after feeding it. Also, flakes and pellets will cloud the water. Water changes don't really help much when you think about it -- you change 50% of the water, feed the fish, and they make a mess again. It's a never-ending battle.

I would think that Marie would be seeing problems if the tank weren't cycled. She said she's had this problem since she brought the babies home and that was several weeks ago. And if she was using an established filter, the cycle should be fine.

The only other idea I had is that maybe there was a LARGE bacteria colony built up in the used filter, and her babies aren't putting off enough ammonia to feed the whole colony, so part of it's dying off? I know that sounds far-fetched, but I had that happen years ago on a community tank that I drastically reduced the number of fish in. That was the best explanation we could ever come up with.

Ryan