What am I doing wrong??

[traco]

I've also read about a produce called "Stability" by Seachem which helps with ammonia, etc... of new tanks.

http://www.seachem.com/products/prod...Stability.html

[pcsb23]

Marie, I know you are being bombarded with advice. This is what I would do in this situation. 1) do as large a w/c as practical 2) add prime directly to the tank after the water change, this will lock up the current active ammonia and give a little buffer time, it will probably still show a reading on your test though!! 3) add an airstone, the tank/filter will cycle quicker witha good oxygen supply. 4) do min 50% w/c at least daily, twice daily if you can.

Finally don't be too hard on yourself we ahve all been there and done this, keep calm and you will get through this.
Paul.

[mikesmac]

Hi Marie, I know I'm new to posting here but I hope you will consider some suggestions. The readings in your new tank show problems with the bio filter, but having a nitrate reading of 10 shows that it is working, just not keeping up. The ammonia is an immediate threat, especially for small discus, and is what may cause problems for you even if the fish aren't showing any stress.... yet...delayed problems may show up if the problem isn't corrected quickly. Simply lowering the PH below neutral converts free ammonia into ammonium, which is less toxic than ammonia, but a quick change in Ph would not be desirable. Just from looking at your specs of what you have, if I were you I'd make sure the temps and PH were about the same and move the fish from the new tank in with the others in the 55 gallon, at the same time hooking up the filters from the new tank to also run on / in the 55 gallon. This will provide good water for the smaller fish immediately without fighting to get the new tank cycled, at the same time it will allow the filters from the new tank to catch up to where they need to be, and once established then all can be transferred back to the new tank. Filter capacity is what determines the quality of the water. An overcrowded tank with excess filter capacity(even though with the fish you have listed the 55 doesn't look like it will be "overcrowded"...at least not while the "babies" are still small) is not a problem. The worst you will get is a quicker buildup of Nitrates which are easily removed with water changes. It may be cluttered and not pretty looking for a couple of weeks, but your fish will thank you. Just be advised... although it shouldn't... (if the tank has been established for a while).... initially the water may cloud in the 55 gallon tank until the bacteria catch up with the additional bio-load, but an established tank will usually catch up very quickly as it's just a matter of multiplication of what are already there.The larger the base to multiply from, the quicker the multiplication takes place. As I said earlier it takes a good 6 weeks for a filter to fully cycle, but if you are producing nitrates then it is already partially through the process and may only need a couple of weeks to be where it needs to be. In the mean time I'd use the 35 gallon tank to let your water "age" (at least 24 hours with heat and aeration) for water changes. One other thing...water changes are to reduce the end product- Nitrates. Excessive water changes while a filter / tank is being cycled can be counter productive because you are effectively removing the food source for the bacteria that you are trying to get to multiply. In a cycled tank the level of bacteria present equalizes with the amount of waste being produced by the inhabitants, that's why sudden increases in the population puts a strain on the bio-filter until the bacteria can multiply to take care of the increased load, and also why decreases in population, especially to zero inhabitants, allows the bio-filter to die off because it has no food source. Just as a note for future reference, I always have extra filters running in my tanks just to use in case I want to separate some one from the crowd, or medicate individuals. If I am looking to add additional tank space I always buy the filter first and let it run on established tanks until I know it is cycled. If I get over anxious and don't want to wait the 6 weeks, I tie the new tank to an established tank (siphons usually) and run them together until I know they are set. Hope this helps. Good luck.

Mike

[Jeckel]

One more item to remember in emergencies: there's a product called Nitra-Zorb made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals that is designed to absorb ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate from water. It's basically resin in a porous pouch. You put it into your filter, and it removes the bad stuff. It'll probably get saturated in a day or two, but you can recharge it in warm salt water and reuse. I've used it, and it seemed to reduce the ammonia or nitrite readings (not necessarily all the way to zero). Of course, I don't know what the readings would have been if I hadn't used the Nitra-Zorb. Anyway, many fish stores carry it.

[Kindredspirit]

Marie, I know you are being bombarded with advice. This is what I would do in this situation. 1) do as large a w/c as practical 2) add prime directly to the tank after the water change, this will lock up the current active ammonia and give a little buffer time, it will probably still show a reading on your test though!! 3) add an airstone, the tank/filter will cycle quicker witha good oxygen supply. 4) do min 50% w/c at least daily, twice daily if you can.

Finally don't be too hard on yourself we ahve all been there and done this, keep calm and you will get through this.
Paul.

Hey Paul!

I am getting bombarded but it is what i asked for isnt it? I already have an airstone in the tank. And I always add Prime right to the tank. I will do a 50% wc now.


Thanks Paul~


Marie~

[mikesmac]

Ahhh, so much for that effort.... nitrification process 101, verifiable by anyone willing to take the time to do the research. Trial and error...worst way to learn. Ammonia kills fish....nitrites kill fish.....even low exposure over extended periods = fatalities.... eventually. "if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger" doesn't apply here. The ammonia is burning their gills and nitrites are screwing with their blood chemistry. The longer it goes on the more irreversable damage is occurring. That's why you don't cycle tanks with expensive fish unless you don't mind watching them die.....and with the solution....an already cycled tank.... sitting there at your disposal. Ammo-lock....Prime..... Sorry.....Trial and error.....

[ronrca]

How are things going in the tank Marie? Any symptons that you can see from the fish?

Dont get discouraged! You will make it thru no problem.

[Timbo]

You will make it thru no problem.

and hopefully the fish will too

i'd be real interested to see new ammonia, nitrite readings..is the tank chemistry getting better or worse Marie?

[Kindredspirit]

I will test the water now, guys~ It has only been one 50% wc, so far tho... brb~




M~

[Kindredspirit]

Okay Guys~

Here are the readings...

Nitrites = 0

Nitrates = 0

Ammonia = it is pretty much zero..not as yellow as it normally is...but no green at all..

Ph= 7.6

So.......... I am at a total loss. I wish I can get into all your heads right about now! I have done one wc @ 50%...What does this mean? And shouldn't my water be clear? Cuz is not~




Ahhh, so much for that effort.... nitrification process 101, verifiable by anyone willing to take the time to do the research. Trial and error...worst way to learn. Ammonia kills fish....nitrites kill fish.....even low exposure over extended periods = fatalities.... eventually. "if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger" doesn't apply here. The ammonia is burning their gills and nitrites are screwing with their blood chemistry. The longer it goes on the more irreversable damage is occurring. That's why you don't cycle tanks with expensive fish unless you don't mind watching them die.....and with the solution....an already cycled tank.... sitting there at your disposal. Ammo-lock....Prime..... Sorry.....Trial and error.....


Mikemacs~ Please forgive me, I didnt mean to like ignore your post. That isnt me. But in all honesty, I do not want to mix anyone with anyone else right now~It is pretty clear you know of that which you speak and I appreciate it more than you know, but to know me, Mike, is to keep it simple! I am blonde...lol! Please do not think your time and efforts below went unoticed ( that so doesnt look right!) as I did read every word. Three times. If you would have said: 'Marie your fish are gonna die, do this now'... I would have on a dime, Sir...but they are still piggies and very active....

Could you please tell me what you think now? My readings are posted up there^ ... and you mentioned you are new to posting here? Well, make no mistake, Mike...You will have plenty of opportunity to post more where I am concerned! But remember that I am not as smart as you when it comes to this, I deal with the mind, Mike...lol... not test tubes and bio filters, and cycles! lol!!

Again, I do apologize, I didnt mean to ignore your suggestions as that was not my intentions at all!


Ron, Jeckle, Timbo... Thanks guys!! Jeckle, I have heard of that product as well~


So, Now what guys?? Tank still cloudy, not as bad, since first wc...and readings are okay...


I so need to know the first thing that went thru your minds, since the new readings... cuz ....that is the only way I am ever going to learn~


Marie~

[craniac24]

Marie,

You said that the HOT Magnum worked well in clearing up your cloudy water before. Why not run it again? I have one and it takes all of 47 seconds to fill with water, hang on the tank, and plug in. Leave it on overnight and voila...crystal clear water!

HTH. Joe

[Jeckel]

The most striking (and puzzling) thing I notice is that your nitrate reading was 10, then went down to 0 after a 50% wc (if I understand your posts correctly). I'd think the nitrates should have gone down to 5, right?

Maybe your test kits are flaky? A few months ago I had a nitrite spike and treated with Amquel Plus, which is supposed to remove nitrites. I didn't see any effect on my nitrite readings, so I e-mailed the manufacturer. Their response was, in part:
>We are finding that many of the colorimetric test kits measuring nitrogen
>compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and chlorine being presently sold
>for aquarium and pond use are to some extent inaccurate. The basic problem
>is that reading low levels at parts per million requires great accuracy in
>reagents that cannot be provided at a cheap price. Technical grade
>test-kit reagents that are considerably more expensive are needed for this
>purpose. The trend has been to make aquarium and pond test kits ever more
>inexpensive, but to do so lessens accuracy, in some cases to being
>considerably inaccurate in test results.
>
>We know from using scientific grade electronic test kits costing hundreds
>or thousands of dollars each that Amquel+ removes chlorine, chloramines,
>and nitrogen compounds (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) per dose as indicated
>on the product label. Unfortunately, the aquarist or pond keeper may be
>unable to determine proper test readings when using the inexpensive test
>kits provided by pet and aquarium stores.
I had expected them to say the Amquel Plus chemically binds the nitrite so test kits still record it, but it's no longer harmful to fish. Instead they asserted the readings were unreliable. I'm not sure how much of this I buy, but I'm sure test kit readings can be misleading, especially if one uses old solutions or contaminated vials.

Apart from the nitrate anomaly, maybe you overwhelmed the bio filter with a bit of overenthusiastic feeding, and it had to catch up? I've heard the bacteria can double their population in 24 hours, so maybe that's why the ammonia and nitrites are looking better.

I'm glad your fish are still happy. After all, that's what's important!

[Kindredspirit]

Thank you , jeckle!!

My test kits had better be okay!! lol...


Cran~ I had never thought of that...hmm....but I have it on my 55gal now...not the new one...I am not sure if I can pop it over to the 30 for a bit?


I am not even sure I could go there on that one~

Marie~

[ronrca]

Marie,
It takes time! If your cloudiness is solely due to your tank recycling, it could take days to clear up. However during that time, keep up the wc's, double dosages of prime and keep monitoring ammonia/nitrite lvls. As mentioned, the most important factor is your discus atm, not the nitrification process. Keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low as possible and detoxed with prime. You and your discus will be fine!

[pcsb23]

Marie, glad to see the readings down, roncxra is right, the fish are the important thing at the mo' often after Amonia goes you get a nitrite spike, then then nitrates go up (nitrogen cycle blah!). This is where good old fashioned salt comes in, it won't cure the nitrite but it helps protect the fish. Salt is fine with prime too! Small amounts will do fine 1 tblspn per 10 galls is fine.
Paul.