Mary @ DDDiscus,

[discusdave]

Guyz cut Mary a break. She's not gone to Vegas with ur money. Running a hatchery treating those worthless fish with expensive meds costs money. She's the perfect example of an importer with good intentions getting hozed by Singapore exporters. One good shipment and then they send all fish the junks that nobody in Asia will ever buy.

One bad shipment and she has to liquidate her entire hatchery?

[Kenny's Discus]

Dave - I think Elcid meant the first shipment(1) was good fish and then all the subsquent shipment(many) were junks?

Kenny

[Elcid]

Sorry, I really should read my posts before I post them. But I guess someone got what I was saying.

thanks,
Sandeep

[Elcid]

Dave:

I was in Mary's Hatchery yesterday. It is a sad sight, there is not one single fish there. All the tanks are drained. Mary's collection gone, even the SS she got 8th place in Dusilburg last year and why? Because she decided to become an importer?

Think about it? I'm really thinking hard if I ever want to buy another import or another discus. BTW, she told me rather than to pay her to paypal the money to that guy she owes!

HTH
Sandeep

[discusdave]

If you get junk once from your Exporter and they don't make it right, then it's time to get a new Exporter. Shouldn't take more than once to figure that one out.

[Elcid]

Dave:

Do you really think it's that easy? They (exporters) are all the same. I was present for each shipment Mary received and each shipment was a notch worse than the previous.

[Kenny's Discus]

I understand your point Dave but I always thought that unless you have real close "connection" with breeders oversee, most of them use this kinda technique(initial shipment ok/good then the rest bad). So if you were an importer relatively new and then try to import from all over while this technique is being utilized, IMO sooner or later you'll be running a deficit of your business.(i.e. can't sell the B/C grade fish)

I'm not saying it's impossible to find good breeders/exporters without connection, but to find one with consistency without knowing is quite difficult IMHO.

Kenny

[discusdave]

Dave:

Do you really think it's that easy? They (exporters) are all the same. I was present for each shipment Mary received and each shipment was a notch worse than the previous.

That is terrible. I guess the judgement is when to get off a sinking ship. Makes you not want to trust anyone.

[discusdave]

I understand your point Dave but I always thought that unless you have real close "connection" with breeders oversee, most of them use this kinda technique(initial shipment ok/good then the rest bad). So if you were an importer relatively new and then try to import from all over while this technique is being utilized, IMO sooner or later you'll be running a deficit of your business.(i.e. can't sell the B/C grade fish)

I'm not saying it's impossible to find good breeders/exporters without connection, but to find one with consistency without knowing is quite difficult IMHO.

Kenny

I see your point.

[RyanH]

Dave:

Do you really think it's that easy? They (exporters) are all the same. I was present for each shipment Mary received and each shipment was a notch worse than the previous.

I've heard of how Asian exporters will often do this. It's a rotten business practice that I just can't comprehend. They may be able to unload some undesirable fish quickly, but I honestly don't understand how it can possibly benefit them in the long run. IMO, everyone loses: the importer, the end customer, and yes, even the exporter. As this thread proves, word of mouth can spread very quickly.

I would however, be cautious of blanket statements Elcid; like "they are all the same". You are dealing with many different individuals and not all will be crooked.

Mary seems like a very nice person who started out with the best of intentions. Desperation on her part made her do things that I've no doubt she would have never considered doing under normal circumstances.

Again, this was a situation where everyone lost.

-Ryan

[Elcid]

Importers are no different from hobbiests, they always think that in their next order they will achieve "Nirvana"

[Elcid]

I'm not any authority, these are just my opinions

But let's look at the facts, who are the importers we lost last year?

1) Mary
2) Eric
3) Tim
4) Mike H

Any others you can think of? Maybe we can add Cary to the list? Every year there is a new crop of importers and buyers, I guess that's why the exporters stay in business.

[mench]

I am saddened to hear that Mary is another nice person getting out of the hobby.To me it is another reason for breeding home grown fish.There have been way too many horror stories about Asian imports that have ruined the lives of the folks that imported them.
Now don't start sending me e-mails.I know that there are Asian fish guys that have great fish and we see their fish on the boards.
Mary called my some time ago about a shipment she want to get..It was from a new person she wanted to buy from and she had to do a LOT of boxes or the guy would not sell to her,yea the price per fish was low but I told her to be real careful and try to see if the guy would just send a trial box of fish to test the quality and health..well I guess that didn't work and now Mary is another breeder that bites the dust,which is really too bad cuz she is a fine person,with a passion for fish.
Not to get on my soapbox,but there is another reason why we in the discus world need some kind quality control on imported fish,and I know it will never happen..I bet the fish that are imported buy the folks in Japan don't spread sickness,cuz it seems all the grade A fish go there,of course the fish cost them a bunch more.
I will only bring this up once.we at N.A.D.A. are trying to come up with standards for discus,and lots of other things but it will take lots of work and time.Boards like this one and others are also the place to look to for help.
I am glad that there are guys like KC Jack and Willie who are working on breeding home grown fish and are having sucess..I know thee are lots of other folks having luck with breeding also and Hans has some good fish from Germany and this is not a plug for his fish,just stating what I have seen and heard.
Sorry to see another nice person fall victim to inferior imported fish.
All my ranting is just one guys opinion of course....

Mench

[discusfire4]

It also makes the forum(s) look bad too. I saw DD Discus on this forum as well as another one. It looked like she was an honest seller who had a passion for discus and other fish. I spoke with her and sent her my money, and this is where it ends up. It all trickles down to the consumer and usually we the buyer catches the brunt of bad fish. In my case, if I hadn't persistantly try calling her, I'd still be out of the possibility of getting my hard earned money back.

[jim_shedden]

Wow........this is sad. I have imported (once) and I was satisfied with the experience. In saying that.......I will not import again. I feel that there are just too many risks.

It is a sad state when people such as Mary get out of the hobby. I at one time wanted to start a hatchery and expand......in other words "turn it into a business". I have since changed my mind. The discus business is a breakeven proposition....at best (mho) . I do not want to buy inexpensive, imported fish to make a buck off of. Also, North American fish have come a long way in a rather short time.

Jim