Mary @ DDDiscus,

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

One thing y'all must realize is that most known discus exporters are brokers...they buy fish from several different sources in order to obtain top notch quality fish of every color type they offer. This is both good and bad. Most people who sell imports get their fish from brokers because it is just easier that way and usually, the prices are better. Mike Heppner is one of many that bought from brokers. With every shipment comes huge risks. It is all on how the fish are QT'd before being sent out and where the fish come from too. A lot of brokers buy the fish and ship them right out, without QTing them. This is where a lot of the problems come from where asian fish come in and just break down or break down in a customers whole collection. The easiest way to tell if an exporter is a broker is if they offer a large variety of fishes for sale on a consistent basis of varying sizes. Most exporters also come out of Singapore. Most Singapore exporters buy their fish from several Malaysian farms so they can offer the most complete assortment of fish available. Why do they buy from Malaysian farms? Because it is MUCH cheaper just to buy fish from Malaysia than it is to breed them because Singapore is very expensive just to live in. Yes, there are several Singapore breeders, but their prices are higher than most. I mean, why breed Blue Diamonds when you can buy a 2.5-3" BD for $3 in Malaysia? The source of the fish makes all the difference in the world. A lot of breeders will go out and buy fish if they're short to fill an order. That happens all the time. So in the end, be careful of where you buy your fish from and ask where the fish are coming from. JMHO.

-Ryan

[brewmaster15]

Ryan,
You've learned alot in the past year Grasshopper!!! (ps..thats meant as a compliment)

That last post of yours says alot and is something that I think people really need to realize is the nature of the beast we all deal with. In many ways its not much different though than when "breeders" in the USA supplimented their inventory of home grown with imports at a time when few admitted they did import...

This of course means you never really knew where your fish came from then... and you still don't now!

-al

[DISCUS USA]

Ryan so wat happened to you bro?? no more importing?? there must be some money in it if you get good shipment.. should be a long list of people wanting BK s from Waynes right now..

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Ryan so wat happened to you bro?? no more importing?? there must be some money in it if you get good shipment.. should be a long list of people wanting BK s from Waynes right now..

Lol, im still importing...just not from Wayne (long story). Plus, im trying to focus on my locals first and wholesale stuff. Should be getting another shipment in the coming month or so. Might be importing from Ivan Seah and a few others possibly if all goes well.

-Ryan

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Ryan,
You've learned alot in the past year Grasshopper!!! (ps..thats meant as a compliment)

That last post of yours says alot and is something that I think people really need to realize is the nature of the beast we all deal with. In many ways its not much different though than when "breeders" in the USA supplimented their inventory of home grown with imports at a time when few admitted they did import...

This of course means you never really knew where your fish came from then... and you still don't now!

-al

Yes, I have most certainly learned a lot over the past year Al....learning everyday. Jeff has especially helped me in learning the ways of the Asian exporters and breeders. Most asian discus arent diseased at all...its just when a broker brings them altogether in one place do they get sick. That and to compound things even more, they get shipped to the other side of the world where water chemistry, bacteria and everything is different....they have no immune system developed against anything here and so they get sick. I think the stress factor plays the biggest role in imports. Minimizing the stress to minimize the chances of them getting very sick. But thats not to say they wont get sick regardless, but every little thing helps.

-Ryan

[wvgdiscus]

Ryan you have learned alot in the past year or so.
I notice you just start with the new breeders in Malaysian & the exporters in Singapore. Take it back a few more years to the breeders in Hong Kong & what happen to them & is there any of the old timers left in breeding any more?

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Ryan you have learned alot in the past year or so.
I notice you just start with the new breeders in Malaysian & the exporters in Singapore. Take it back a few more years to the breeders in Hong Kong & what happen to them & is there any of the old timers left in breeding any more?

I was staying current due to the current issue at hand with Mary...as far as going back any further, I know very little. ...could you explain to me what happened a few years prior to in HK?? I am always wanting to learn and know the background of the discus biz...others do too im sure.

-Ryan

[lssdiscus]

Hi Ryan, You made some great points regarding stress and changing water quality when discus are imported. The logical next questions is what do you (and Jeff) do to best minimize the lack of immunity the discus have to changes in bacteria etc in the new US water?.....Lou

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Well, the first thing we do is run the tanks with no filtration....Asian style forsay...the nitrifying bacteria in any filtration can harbor both good and bad bacteria. The chance of bad bacteria being present is just too much of a risk. That and chemicals we use most of the time kill the biofilter anyways. So, we eliminate the filters altogether to eliminate this risk. And since we are no longer running filtration we need to increase our water changes. I personally do atleast 90% water changes 2x a day....sometimes more if the stocking density is high. Along with creating a "sterile" environment with no bacteria in the system, we treat each and every fish with an oxydizer. We do this by adding in 35% hydrogen peroxide into the water (1mL per 10 gallons). The 35% HP will oxydize almost everything organic in the tank, including bacteria, fungus and anything else. But at a semi-low dose, it wont harm the fish, unless your pH is out of wack or you over dosed it. This basically cleans up the exteriors of the fish of any ecto-parasites and bacteria that can give us problems later down the road. Granted, it wont eliminate all of them, but it will reduce their numbers. I redose the 35% HP 8 hours later after it breaks down so I can maintain a constant concentration in the water. I then do a 50% water change 8 hours later as 35% HP can affect the pH (dont want a pH shock when I do a normal 90% w/c). Another reason why I add in the 35% HP is that as it breaks down, it breaks down into Oxygen and Water...so it adds oxygen to the water, which is beneficial to the fish...especially the ones that are laying on their sides. Now, I sometimes add in salt and acriflavine to the tank the following day if their fins are badly burned to help speed up the healing process and to prevent any kind of (secondary) bacterial infection on the fins. I maintain the acriflavine + salt in the tank for up to a week while the fins grow back. All the while the tanks are scrubbed everyday to prevent any kind of slime buildup on the tank walls/floor that may harbor bacteria along with the normal 90% w/c's 2x a day. All of this is done to reduce the "infection pressure" on the fish. The lower we can keep this "infection pressure", the easier time the fish will have accimlating. And reducing stress is a big thing too...so to reduce the stress as much as possible, I stock the tanks heavily...comfort in numbers basically. I usually stock about 30-40 fish per 65 gallon tank. All of this creates an ideal environment for the fish to acclimate and get comfortable. Once the fish are eating, then getting them acclimated is much easier. The immune system of the fish will catch up eventually and shouldnt pose much of a problem after a while. Now once the fish are in the customers tanks...thats a whole 'nother story because the variables are too great as to what can go wrong and the reasons why they breakdown. JMO

-Ryan