Discus market concerns

[imatrout]

Okay. I think my point is getting drowned in the propensity of this board to drift into "perfectionist mode. My point is that if you want to have more people enjoying discus then you have to stop treating it like rocket science because it ain't. If I had to feed my dog filet mignon only and had to cut it into bite-sized pieces every 4 hours, bath and brush him daily, pick through his poop for signs of parasites and keep him in a 6X6 concrete pen that had to be hosed out every day, I would not have a dog AND not many people would breed dogs.

We need a book called, "Discus for the Pet Owner"

[Albanets]

loooooool
totally agree

[ShinShin]

Trout,

Thanks for validating my first post.

Mat

[Cosmo]

This is truly an interesting thread, and there's been a lot of good points on all sides. However, having said that.. lol, I think the greatest disservice to this hobby would be for this forum, or any other, to advise hobbiests to just buy their livestock, keep them in any manner they choose, and everything will be wonderful .. it won't.

The hobby is best served by putting out information that relays the best information available on what Discus require, and how the hobbiest can be successful keeping their fish. And by discussions such as this one where the various views are challenged and/or supported. 20 years ago the UGF was the ultimate... exchange of information and experiences is how any hobby evolves.

Can you seriously imagine a forum dedicated to any species giving out advise to "do whatever it is you want to do with them and they'll be fine" ?????? IMO that would be completely irresponsible and disrespectful to the best interest of the species and/or breed...

Discus are not for everyone just as guppies, goldfish, German Sheppards, Chevrolets, and Porsches are not for everyone... isn't that the way things work? Discus will never be price competitive with guppies, or be as maintenance free as Goldfish... just the facts ma'am.. lol

So in order to promote a better understanding of our hobby .. EVERYONE.. please keep the discussions here and the other threads going... it's in the best interest of us all

Thanks,
Jim

PS. Dottie... ummm Arabian's are out of my tax bracket.. lol Did date a woman who was breeding them a few years back though and she found the market dominated by the big farms with mega bucks to spend Like everything else huh.. lol

[Dave C]

"Can you seriously imagine a forum dedicated to any species giving out advise to "do whatever it is you want to do with them and they'll be fine" ??????"

No, but on the other side, most Discus forums go to the extreme of telling newcomers to the hobby to forgo substrate, forgo plants, nothing but Discus, pack'em in, feed them 6x a day, change 80% a day and focus on maximum growth in the shortest time possible. I know I'm exaggerating but each of those bits of advice can be found on this forum... maybe not all in one thread, but they're all there. And no doubt it's intimidating for someone who just wants a nice tank with some Discus. No one new to the hobby dreams of a sterile, bare tank with 6 Discus alone in some water. It just doesn't happen that way. They dream of a long tank with tall vals at the back, a community of cardinals with a group of regal Discus strutting back and forth. They don't dream of changing 80% of the water every day, or of putting pure beef into their tank and watching the water get cloudy, necessitating another water change. They want Discus to enjoy them not to be chained to them. And when they question this advice they're told "if you don't want to do the work then get an easier cichild". I'm telling you, Discus are that easy cichild. The message that is going out to the average hobbyist is the wrong message, in my opinion. It would be like telling a new puppy owner that if they didn't play with their new dog 5 hours a day, take it for a least a mile walk each day, feed it t-bone steak, groom it for an hour, it would not grow as big or as beautiful as it could. It just gets crazy sometimes. There are many people that have success with Discus without the huge & numerous feedings, daily w/c and bare tanks. They just tend to get drowned out by the rest.

[alpine]

Dave C , enjoyed your post .

roberto.

[johara]

This thread has been a wonderful eye opener for me, a fairly new to discus person. I have been dutifully following (most of) the advice on the site, scrutinizing daily for disease, probably jumping the gun and treating for something that I don't think in the end was disease, and wondering if I should just sell the discus and go back to the community tank I could enjoy without an hour plus a day of work and worry.

Since this thread started I have been backing off a little on water changes, 30% every 2 to 3 days instead of daily, and so far everyone is happy and the nitrates are still zero (thanks to the plants) and phosphates only 1. Maybe I can find a better balance between endless water change and enjoyment of my fish! Thanks everyone for the more moderate perspective - I may stay with discus keeping after all!

p.s. I did choose to ignore the advice about no plants and bare bottom - just didn't see the point (for me, I understand it's much different for serious breeders) of having these beautiful fish in such a barren display. Based on what I learned here I moderated my planted tank to allow for better cleaning. I very much appreciate all the advice and info, however it's great to be validated in taking some of it with a grain of salt!

[Sindhu]

I guess after reading this very interesting thread, it's true to say on which level are the hobbyists at!? For those who wants to enjoy keeping Discus and not the hard work that's involved in breeding them Dave C's last sentence says it all.

"There are many people that have success with Discus without the huge & numerous feedings, daily w/c and bare tanks. They just tend to get drowned out by the rest."

Might be a good idea to have different advice for different levels of this hobby.
Sindhu

[Ryan]

On the flip side, some of the early books were intimidating as well, at least to me. As a kid I bought several discus books because they were my dream fish. Every book told me I needed RO water, or water filtered through peat, with a low pH. It also recommended a planted tank to make the fish feel more at home, and feedings of live brine shrimp and other live foods.

For a 12 year old, this all sounded impossible... AND expensive. So imagine my surprise when I found these forums and found out that my water chemistry was fine, and I didn't need all that stuff. It made discus seem WAY more simple. So while it may intimidate some, it may simplify things for others. I guess it really depends on what your expectations were for discus.

Ryan

[White Worm]

My point all along was that we seem to have a slight difference of opinion which way is the perfect way. Theres not... one persons idea of perfect and ideal is not anothers idea of perfect and ideal. Breeding numerous discus in record time for size, color and prep for sell, may require you to have BB tanks and change water constantly. If you enjoy the hobby for the beauty of the discus and do this on a much smaller scale, then perfection may be slightly planted with good filtration, much less of a job and more enjoyment from the hobby. Nobody should give advice like ........
"Do whatever you want and everything will be fine" but new people to the hobby also shouldnt hear.......
"there is only one way and if you dont do it that way, you are doing a disservice to the hobby".
If someone is saying there is an ideal way, then they are saying do it one way and if you dont, you will fail and have less than ideal discus. Not true. In ones ideal conditions you may end up with less than ideal discus. Just the same...in less than ones ideal conditions, you could end up with a diamond.

[Dave C]

On the flip side, some of the early books were intimidating as well, at least to me. As a kid I bought several discus books because they were my dream fish. Every book told me I needed RO water, or water filtered through peat, with a low pH. It also recommended a planted tank to make the fish feel more at home, and feedings of live brine shrimp and other live foods.

I wouldn't say that's really the flip side. If anything it's just another example of unnecessary recommendations for keeping Discus. So we've advanced from telling newcomers that RO/low pH/live food are required for Discus and now it's daily large water changes/massive & frequent feeding/bare, sterile tanks/species tanks only. While it may be cheaper to meet these requirements they're not less intimidating to someone who wants an aquarium for the enjoyment of the fish, the interaction of the fish with their environment and other tank inhabitants.

I'm not suggesting that "my way" (if there is such a thing) is the right way, or the only way. I am suggesting that a Discus owner decide what his/her goals are for their fish and do what is necessary to meet those goals. If your goal is this...



then keep your tank bare, stock it heavily to reduce aggression, feed heavily multiple times a day and keep only Discus. But if you really want to end up with this...



then you should follow an alternate plan of attack. It can be done and it can be equally, or more rewarding. It depends on what you want. Initially it makes sense to start bare, change lots of water and learn to take care of the fish. But Discus ain't rocket science. If you can keep a tank clean there's not need for a sterile environment. Think for yourself and find people that have achieved what you want to end up with and learn from their example.

[alpine]

This thread has been a Healthy Thread. It brings to attention the Simplicity of keeping discus and that along will bring more people to chose keeping them. This is my first year, I keep bare tanks, only discus in each one , but have learned since I started early this year and have learned not to worry about doing daily water changes, cleaned walls every day , not to worry about the "right " ph , not having barrels of age water and heaters and air pumps areating them. I have learned that the discus is a pretty strong fish and not as delicate as it has been portait to be .
The plant aquariums were my dream at first but decided to learned with the basics.
Thanks to all that have posted on this thread.Especially trout and dave c.

roberto.

[JeffreyRichard]

Dave C ... excellent comments ... and beautiful tank ...

[Greg Richardson]

Dave.

Initially it makes sense to start bare, change lots of water and learn to take care of the fish.

And that is exactly the type of advice many have given on here.

They give it because they have read time after time people going straight to planted tanks with the combination of learning how to deal with plants and discus have failed and left the hobby.

I've read many posts on this thread jumping on the bandwagon saying go BB with lot's of wc's theme is scaring people.

I'd much rather have people start off BB and learn discus keeping and if they want to advance to planted tanks great!

That will keep the hobby going % wise much better then straight into planted tanks with discus.

People who take suggestions as absolutes are really scaring themselves.

Taking those suggestions, turning them into absolutes, is not the responsibility of the ones giving suggestions as this threads bandwagon seems to suggest.

[crimson cross]

Good to see that there are more members who believe in LESS water changes . For a while I thought that sites like these are only churning out phds in "water changing".

A few years ago, I was gang raped by the so called experts on this board when I suggested a regimen of less water changes but it's good to see some of you have seen the light. Just my two cents, as usual...lol..