Water Changes: 50% Daily vs 100% every 3 days?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Just trying to get some opinions on the daily grind compared to larger changes every 3 days. This is for my juvie tank but i guess it should be fine for adults as well.

Now i dont do 100% but have been doing about a 95% WC and have started to do them every 3 days now that my tank is fully cycled.

These large changes ARE from aged water but as my juvies get older ......... i will probably try it with my tap as my PH hardly changes from tap to aged. I only see a .2 change.

The article that Willie wrote in the NADA newsletter got me thinking on these lines even know his study was done with 50% & 100% in a 5 and 10 day period. His statement of the only way to get your water back to pristine conditions (zero nitrates) is to do a 100% WC seemed very logical to me. At least thats how i took it and it just seems like common sense to me.

I look at it this way .......................... if my nitrates were at 40ppm and i do a 100% WC then im back to 0 nitrates with one wc (as long as my tap water has 0 too).

But if my nitrates are at 40ppm and i do a 50%wc then its still at 20ppm ............ then i do another 50%wc and then its only down to 10ppm ................ and so on............ and thats not taking into account that my nitrates are rising in between the 50% wc's.

So even if you do 50% wc's every day .............. your nitrates will never get to 0 ................ but you may be able to keep them low enough to get by.

I personally would rather do 1 large WC every 3 days or so and have less nitrates than if i did a 50% wc every day.


So whats everyones opinion on this????




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[BIGFOOT]

HI Cage,

I am sleepless tonight due to a ear ache so here best that i can come with. I recently post 100% water changes. I asked this question because i didnt think they were possible butt this forum has convince me enough to give it a try. The tank is a non discus tank that has a nitrite problem anyway so i have nothing to lose only to gain. Before whatever i did to cause the nitrite spike i use to do 30% once a day. My nitrate level stayed the same as the tap water level. I know this cause when testing i would double the sample to make the kit more sensitive to lower reading(old plant tank trick). Now the question you have chosen is....Does discus need pristine water??? Meaning 0 nitrate. My answer would come up to NO!!! My reasoning for this is that their native habitat is not pristine. You would have an easier time to convince me that it low in nitrate content because of large volumes of water flow.

[Dood Lee]

Technically, you can't ever really have zero nitrates in the tank, since nitrates are the end product of the nitrification process. Doing 100% water changes will get you 'zero' nitrates for a time, but to me, that always seemed unreasonable. Changing out 40+ gallons every day is ridiculous, not only because of the amount of water wasted each day, but simply because most fish (even discus) can tolerate moderate levels of nitrates in the water. The real problem is keeping them at an acceptable level for the fish species in your tank. I always keep mine at the 10ppm level, but that's only because I have a fully planted tank, and the plants need the nitrates. Most people try to keep their nitrate levels at the 5ppm range.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Well my question is if 95% every 3 days would be better than 50% every day to keep the nitrates in check.

My nitrates climb to 40 pretty quick even when doing 50% a day. Probably from over feeding the juvies.

But my tap water has tested at about 7 ppm for nitrates so its impossible for me to get to 0 anyway.

The 95% change gets me down quick and the 50% change once a day just doesnt seem to remove enough cause it just cuts them in half and builds right back up the next day ................ so 50% a day just seems like a loosing battle to me.

If i could keep nitrates at 10ppm by 50% changes i would do it ............... but after a 50% change ............... i test the water again and it just makes me feel like i need to do it again and again to get the nitrates low.

Hopefully adding some plants to the tank will help reduce the load and im probably over stocked with 16 2-3 inch discus in a 55 ................... but when i read that people have raised 30 , 60 and more up to 4 inches in a 55 ............ i just dont know!!

I was gonna split the group in 2 but when i hear of more than i have now in a 55 .......... i dont want to waste the space. Once i get into breeding ............ i certainly wont have the space for only a handful of juvies per tank.

Learning as i go i guess ......... lol.......... thru trial and error.

Im gonna start a chart to keep track of my nitrates and changes and see how it goes and what works best in this situation.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

By the way ............... what is the most accurate test kit for testing nitrates??

Im using the freshwater master kit by Aquarium pharmaceuticals and from 40 to 160 there is only 3 color swatches that are so close to the same color ....; its extremely hard to be accurate. And the swatch for 20 isnt that far off from 40's color swatch either.

The nitrate test takes about 7 minutes and 20 drops and then i strain to get an accurate reading.

Theres got to be better kit out there?

Any digital guages for nitrate??

[scans]

If your nitrates are climbing that fast, what would they be like if you left it alone for 3 days? Would they get so high as to affect the fish? 50% a day may seem tedious, but it allows the water parameters to remain relitively constant. Would it be too harsh allowing the water to collect junk for 3 days and then changing it all?


This is why I love my auto change system. My tank parameters have been constant since I started it 2 months ago.


Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 5
Nitrite - .1

[brewmaster15]

Cage,
On your nitrates..

Since your Nitrates are directly related to you biofilter and organic wastes...I would be curious what size tank you have, what you are feeding, and how often...and how many fish+sizes are in the tank..

Are your nitrates really up to 40PPm that soon? if so, maybe you are overstocking that tank?

any how.. part of a solution...Try hanging pothos in the tank... Its a good nitrate sponge

-al

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage,
On your nitrates..

Since your Nitrates are directly related to you biofilter and organic wastes...I would be curious what size tank you have, what you are feeding, and how often...and how many fish+sizes are in the tank..

Are your nitrates really up to 40PPm that soon? if so, maybe you are overstocking that tank?

any how.. part of a solution...Try hanging pothos in the tank... Its a good nitrate sponge

-al

Actually most of those questions were answered above in my posts.

55 gallon tank

16 2-3 inch juvies & now one 5 inch pleco just aded 2 days ago (overstocked?? ive been told yes and no ........ as said above ive rerad of people growing out up to 60 fish to 4 inches in a 55 ........ im way under that but still may split the group up if this problem continues)

2 Oxygen Plus Bio-Filter 4 (rated at 75 gallons each) & 1 box filter with sponge, filter floss & bio ceramic rings.

Feeding: FBW, FBS, tetra flakes, tetra bits, spirulina flakes & experimenting with Spectrum THERA+A & Sera Premium Discus Color blue granules. I also feed ground beefheart with nothing added the day of WC's

I dont have a set routine down for feeding unfortunately but i average about 6 feedings day (some large & some small depending on how long between feedings) These guys are eating and pooping machines ...... lol.

I vac the waste about 4 times a day which usually takes out about 5 gallons of water (10%) which is also replaced with aged water.

My ammonia & nitrites stay at 0 so the bio load isnt overloaded in that aspect.

I added a small philadendrum last night and looking for more plants to add too.

I dont have any type of automated WC setup so if 95% every 3 (or 2 days) keeps me at the same level as 50% daily im all for it. Im gonna start a chart and keep better tabs on exactly what my levels are before and after changes and on a daily basis to see what works best. (see my post above on testing kits please)

I think thats it ......... lol.

Just trying to get a good routine down on what works best for me right now and see if i can continue with the same amount of fish in this tank before splitting them up if i have to.

Thanx for the replies and great info so far and keep it coming.

Thats why im here .............. to keep learning and use the knowledge i obtain from more experienced disus keepers & my own trial and error to keep improving my discus husbandry.

[brewmaster15]

Can't help you much on making sense of stocking levels when theres so many opinions on what works best there Cage... alls Ican tell you is I would consider that overstocked if that was my tank of fish...and I would either do lots of wc.. or split them out and see if the Nitrate issue is better......You are feeding alot...and some of it is very messy..that translates to bioload which translates to nitrates..

only 3 ways to remove the nitrate..

plants
wc
mechanical or biological filtration

-al

[lauren0626]

This is why I love my auto change system. My tank parameters have been constant since I started it 2 months ago.


Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 5
Nitrite - 0

You made me jealous! Big time! I want an auto change system, too!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave C]

If your nitrates are climbing that fast, what would they be like if you left it alone for 3 days? Would they get so high as to affect the fish?

I agree, if 50% w/c still allow your nitrates to climb to 40ppm each day I can't imagine what they'd get to after 3 days.

[Kindredspirit]

Well, that doesn't sound good now does it?~







Marie~

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I agree, if 50% w/c still allow your nitrates to climb to 40ppm each day I can't imagine what they'd get to after 3 days.

Thats what im trying to figure out ............... if trying the larger WC will help or not. If it gets to high in 2 days then i'll do the 95% every other day instead.

The 50% change only removes half so in theory doing 50% a day should be worse than 100% every 2 days since nitrates would climb higher each time between the 50% change and the 100% change takes it to 0 each time.

maybe i'll do a test of both ways for 2 weeks each to see the results............ kinda like you did Dave with your water change experiment except to test water quality instead of growth.

[pcsb23]

Cage,

Jumping in on the test kit question, I find that the Sera test kits are generally better than most others, and I think I've tried just about every other one too! Don't know if there is an affordable electronic meter for nitrates yet.

Paul.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage,

Jumping in on the test kit question, I find that the Sera test kits are generally better than most others, and I think I've tried just about every other one too! Don't know if there is an affordable electronic meter for nitrates yet.

Paul.

Im assumming that the SERA test kit is similar to the one im using.

2 bottles of liquid drops and color swatches??

Do the swatch colors vary more & more of them making them easier to get accurate readings?

Any chance of a pic of the test kit?